F-117/ B-2/ F-22/ FB-22 NOT STEALTHY ENOUGH

In this thread you can discuss any thoughts you have about balance within the game. Does a particular unit need a specification changed? Is a stealth plane not stealthy enough? Do "Belli Bar" levels need to be changed? Let us know and discuss it all here.

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Medalmorph
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F-117/ B-2/ F-22/ FB-22 NOT STEALTHY ENOUGH

Post by Medalmorph »

I recently purchase Supreme ruler hoping to have a super power air superiority nation being able to destroy the enemy without a problem but what came my surprise is that, my stealth fighters (i.e F-117/ B-2) can't even pass through neutral terrirory to attack on my enemy without them seeing the plane and attacking me :cry: . Note: The neutral have no radar, i have a AWACS E6 or something that can see out 310km and i chose the best route, no Anti-Aircraft, not over anybuilding on flat ground, i deployed them as soon as they reach neutral territory, they are detected and they declare war on me. PLEASE PLEASE fix this!!!! B-2 ARE VERY EXPENSIVE!!!! They should have stealth power of 300+(guessing). Scenario, U.S. South West, played as Arizona, sent 25 B-2 Squad over New Mexico(neutral), I have the passing on route with no treaty on so i can pass through neutral, As soon as they hit border...BAM!! War declared!
Baloogan
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Post by Baloogan »

I've increased their stealth in my mod in version 1.3 which should be released later tonight.
Medalmorph
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How strong will it be??

Post by Medalmorph »

How strong will it be and how did you change it in your mod...(rephrase question) How did you make that mod and where can i get it??
Baloogan
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Post by Baloogan »

Most steath aircraft now have a steath value of 200+. Remember when something is firing AND moving they take a 75 percent hit to stealth.
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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

missed this thread before, but it should be mentioned to anyone modding, don't go past 255, that makes it invisible.

We'll look at a lot more balance issues in a few weeks. Too many other things pulling our attention ATM.

Also, stealth will be a difficult thing to balance since there is (that I know of) no real world case of them being used against an opponent of equal tech. I suspect we will get varied opinions on just how stealthy they really should be.
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Baloogan
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Post by Baloogan »

Balthagor wrote:missed this thread before, but it should be mentioned to anyone modding, don't go past 255, that makes it invisible.

We'll look at a lot more balance issues in a few weeks. Too many other things pulling our attention ATM.

Also, stealth will be a difficult thing to balance since there is (that I know of) no real world case of them being used against an opponent of equal tech. I suspect we will get varied opinions on just how stealthy they really should be.

I realized from my days of trying to manually edit the default.uni that stealth str is a single byte value. :D
I think I'm going to add some more units.
Decimatus
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Post by Decimatus »

Well, if the US went and flew 25 B-2's over any given country on their way to bomb someone, they will probably find out(unless they are some country like zimbabwe or something). It isn't like the Stealth makes the planes invisible to radar. The stealth only makes them less visible to radar.
Medalmorph
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Post by Medalmorph »

Decimatus, there wasn't any radar like i said i scouted the area and chose the least resistance, no units were even close to there and their intercepter were all the way to the left while my B-2 is all the way to the right. THEY SHOULDN'T BE DETECTED!!! Whats the point of having stealth plane if you cant hide it? I mean other region can see it but boy, they dont even have a radar center, how can they see it???? Should make it like no one can see the B-2 unless they have an air unit close to it say 20km???
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Post by Juergen »

Nice to see that someone else also disagrees with the current stealth levels.

I was in the beta and I also tested the demo long enough to come to the conclusion that any unit (on land of course) that has a stealth strenght of lower than 150 will get detected by just crossing coming into regular enemy territory....no radar no nothing...just land.
It is assumed that land someone owns has a spotting value...

While there are certainly not many information available at how stealthy these planes really are and what kind of detection system is required to detect I honestly believe that we can agree that a simply piece of land should NOT be able to detect a dedicated stealth aircraft.

"Whats the point of having stealth plane if you cant hide it?"

Medalmorph I think you are right,the whole point of stealth is to remain undetected for as long as possible.
But when even stealth get detected by simple landscape this point is absolutely lost.
Be sure to read up the LOS Balancing discussion in the now closed Beta forum:
http://www.bgforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=678&start=0

I have been trying to convince Battlegoat for a long time that having "land with eyes" is just no good for realism and decreases the value of all stealth units on land.
Medalmorph
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Post by Medalmorph »

YES!!!! someone agree with me :P !!!!I mean stealth plane should be able to be detected but not without a radar or AWACS in the area, btw if there is radar and AWACS, the distant that the plane is visible should be less. Ex: If radar can detect units within 210km out then stealth plane i.e B-2 should get close to about 40-50km before being detected. IF this works out, gotta make more long range bomb... :lol:
dust off
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Post by dust off »

Medalmorph I think you are right,the whole point of stealth is to remain undetected for as long as possible.
But when even stealth get detected by simple landscape this point is absolutely lost.
Be sure to read up the LOS Balancing discussion in the now closed Beta forum:
http://www.bgforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=678&start=0

I have been trying to convince Battlegoat for a long time that having "land with eyes" is just no good for realism and decreases the value of all stealth units on land.
Juergen You have a good pont there. It's not just a case of civilians spotting units. Many, if not most, civilians don't know their B2 from there M1. Aircraft and AFV recognition is not as easy in real life. Not to mention that these spotting civilians have a direct line to command HQ!

Would you agree that the same issue is hampering gameplay of special forces?
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Post by Juergen »

The detection of special forces is handled in the same way and they too get detected the moment they are in enemys land.
I experimented with this several times in the demo.
Balthagor mentioned that it would be possible to insert unnoticed if they would move in "forrest" terrain.

However,they would certainly be far more worthwhile if they had a real stealth capability.
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

Basically, this is still the debate about hexs autospotting and upgrade spotting abilities.

I kinda thought the hex spotting abilities were turned down when the upgrades were given thier own spotting ability.

Were they, but not enough ?
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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Baloogan
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Post by Baloogan »

tkobo wrote:Basically, this is still the debate about hexs autospotting and upgrade spotting abilities.

I kinda thought the hex spotting abilities were turned down when the upgrades were given thier own spotting ability.

Were they, but not enough ?
there should BE NO HEX AUTO SPOTTING ARGH!!!!!! ITS NOT REALISTIC!!!
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bergsjaeger
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Post by bergsjaeger »

The F-117 should have better stealth anyways. Hell before the war with Iraq started there was 2 that flew over Bagdad and tried to kill Saddam.

Course there was tomahawks too.

Bergsjaeger= mountain hunter
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