Explicit test on research system

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Journier
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Post by Journier »

world scenario? ive finished tree in less than 1 year....

but that was after i sucked 25 trillion from the AI's and put every penny of that 25 trillion 25,000,000 M into research...

i had a efficiency of 235% for a long time (4 months i think?) then it started crashing :)
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

Very nice .

No cheats used right ? No money cheats or taking control of the AI to control their diplomacy and trade right ?
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bergsjaeger
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Post by bergsjaeger »

In my case honest research. That's y i said i never have enough money.
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

/em tkobo bows down before the mighty gods of tech research :-)

Thats better than i do now, its good to know i can greatly improve my game play after all the time ive played.
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bergsjaeger
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Post by bergsjaeger »

there's things I still am testing and finding out about (fighter bombers are better at destroying than heavy bomber). Some results I don't like and I keep testing until I get the result I want. As for research 6 and half years isn't good enough. So maybe within another month I get the results I want. Course my testing on research been with regions with huge populations (China, India) so I can tax alot more to get more money just to have enough and to fund the research. I'm not sure 6 and half years is possible with other regions due to their population. Seems I got it right that adding a research center for every 2M ppl is right because every test has been the same even is smaller regions. One region had 4M ppl and one center and the eff kept dropping until I added a 2nd center then the eff started rising as well as my GDP And I was able to add 3 more after I took over another region that added 6M ppl to my population. In that test I was able to complete 6 unit techs and 4 major techs. I could have researched more after I found out later because later on I put every unit and major tech I wanted in the queue. I only could have researched 48 techs at a time I think I had around 100 and none of them were plaused. I was able to finish all of them within 2 years. The eff suffered some I think it dropped from 156% to 120% and this was with 9 centers and 3B in research. As I said I learned a pattern in research now if it doesn't change with the next update then it still be the same.
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Journier
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Post by Journier »

Im not using cheats, I am using an exploit against the AI though, i wouldnt be able to finish the research in a year if the dev's fix this bug with the AI buying as many barrels as possible "putting itself into trillions of dollars in debt" no matter what price the product is.

I dont do it every game just a couple games when i was trying to figure out a way to make alot of money quickly. and boom this happened :)

you can probably finish the research tree in 2 years if you "milk" the AI instead of just taking every dollar they will ever make in the next 5 years :)

i sorta feel the research really is sorta slow going if your playing normally trying to keep your economy in the green.

my normal research rate is 3-4 years to get my "needed" techs. if i dont use any exploits and just play :)
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bergsjaeger
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Post by bergsjaeger »

:lol: Well I'm trying 5 years and finish the entire tree. I'm still looking toward the honest side first if not I will cheat. but I hate too.
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bergsjaeger
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Post by bergsjaeger »

ok annoyed very annoyed. I can't get no lower than 6 and half years. The only way to get past it is to cheat or take over 5 heavy populated regions at once. The closes i got is in germany and that was with just one region. Now with all of germany its possible. But i am frustrated with my testing right now. maybe someone else can do better.
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

Hahhaha,dont look at me, YOUR already doing FAR better than me on this to begin with :oops:
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bergsjaeger
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Post by bergsjaeger »

:lol: I have beatern 6 and half years. Cut it down 2 months now its 6 years and 4 months :D 2 whole months worth that took me nearly 3 weeks to do. I guess its positive results. but 5 years seems nearly impossible. But I keep tryig.
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

I know ive said this before , but i cant find where,so i"ll say it here also.

With zero spending on technology-IE ZERO spending in every heading including of course the R&D budget- tech level will still rise VERY slowly.

Anyone know if you actually have to have a tech research center for this rise in tech level to occur ?
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bergsjaeger
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Post by bergsjaeger »

:lol: the tech level still rises when i have every slot filled and with the tech level at 0%.
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Eric Larsen
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Kill the Research Tech Cap

Post by Eric Larsen »

I would really like to see the research cap for techs killed for multiple research projects. I fully agree that there needs to be a cap on individual techs to preclude people from researching projects in one day. However the way research works now it kills any incentive to be realworld and research mulitple projects at a time.

The problem with the research tech cap is that whether you research one project or many projects only the same miserly amount of the money you actually allocate to tech research gets spent on tech research. I did some tests with one tech and multiple techs and saw that the same amount of money got allocated whether I researched one project or five. The rest was wasted on tech level and efficiency.

If there were just a cap on how much can be spent on each project to keep it's research time reasonable while allowing more money to get spent on multiple techs then players could use up their allocated tech research budget for researching techs. It would allow players to find their sweet spot for how many techs they can research for any particular region. It would help the AI's since they always research multiple projects at one time.

Right now that research tech cap just forces us to research one thing at a time so we can gain the benefits of it quicker. I wait until there's one day left to research before adding another new item to the tech research que. Most times it doesn't add a day but sometimes it does but on the days it doesn't I know I haven't been cheated out of any tech research opportunity.

There's so many techs to research and so little time and it's a real pity that we are unfairly hamstrung researching techs. What's the use of having lots of research centers if we can't really research multiple techs at one time with reasonable research times?
Thanks,

Eric Larsen
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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

Research remains a contentious issue, even among the dev team...

There is already a benefit to researching multiple techs at once. I did some controlled tests and confirmed that when not limited on spending (remember that there is a GDP based cap on the amount of money you can push into research, no matter how many centres you have) researching two techs at once they will complete in 80-90% of the time it would to research the same to techs one at a time.

Most ppl research one at a time in an effort for instant gratification.

As for the spending, you can use the sliders to pull funding out of tech level. There will still be a small increase in tech level doing this as the model assumes progress never truely "stands still". The efficiency was intended to be portions of the R&D sector that could not be easily modeled in game, but we have been taking notes that may yet lead to a complete redesign of that. I won't bother getting into that further, we've already discussed it in other threads. Once spending it reduced from these areas, if there is still a notable increase it means the total money being spent on techs exceeds the amount they use (it is a fixed amount, you don't overspend on tech research, any excess is split evenly between lvl and eff)
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

Is this a recent test ? or the older ones ?

Also interesting to see the extra is split "evenly", i dont think we knew that til now.
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