Entrenching in clear terrain

Discuss examining Terain, Cities, Industries, Bases, Units and Hex Development here.

Moderators: Balthagor, Legend, Moderators

Decimatus
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 734
Joined: May 18 2005
Location: The Empire

Post by Decimatus »

Yeah, the thought of being sucked out the exit hole that the depleted uranium just made isn't very appealing. :)

I don't think the Iraqi's quite knew what was coming though(GW1). Americans of course had a front row seat to the action, but the Iraqis probably had screams of terror at best over their radios. :P

Having heard some of the Iraqi stories from the war, they couldn't comprehend a collumn of tanks crossing a wide open desert to attack them, let alone in the middle of a sandstorm.

In GW2 whole brigades were surrendering at the mere sight of a recon humvee appearing in a storm, because they knew what was close behind that humvee. :)
User avatar
bergsjaeger
General
Posts: 2240
Joined: Apr 22 2005
Location: Woods Bend, Alabama,USA

Post by bergsjaeger »

That reminds me of Iraq soldiers surrendering to an :o UAV. Because The UAV's were targeting for US ships out in the ocean. And everytime the iraqi soldiers seen the UAV they get bombed.
In war destroy everything even the livestock.
User avatar
George Geczy
General
Posts: 2688
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: BattleGoat Studios
Contact:

Post by George Geczy »

Regarding the original question (entrenchment values in open terrain), we can take another look at this, but I think some of our basic assumptions work well.

First, we have different maximums based on the terrain type, and there are a dozen "major" types (from plains, farmland, rough, light forest, etc). Then there are also 'hilly' versions of many of these types.

Then there is also a factor based on what else is in the hex - obviously a city gives lots of entrenchment opportunities.

In an empty hex, you are also able to build fixed emplacements - since these only take a couple of weeks to construct, they simulate the type of 'fortifying positions' that can happen; emplacements not only provide a defensive bonus, but they also increase the entrechment maximum for the hex.

There are also differences in the way that soft and hard targets entrench, though offhand I don't remember the exact differences.

Yes, I understand that a unit can obtain some defensive benefits by digging-in in a very short timeframe, but as pointed out above these don't always make a good match against modern spotting techniques. As well, there are bonuses to a unit that isn't moving, these take into account some of those benefits of 'digging in' a bit.

-- George.
angelsenior
Corporal
Posts: 3
Joined: Nov 16 2005
Location: Belgium

Post by angelsenior »

to be honest,

in modern day combat a non-moving unit is a sitting duck and will get killed;
a moving target is harder to hit, can easily change direction to get out of the fight if needed.

a dug-in target may have some added protection but it wont compete with being easier to hit; it is more important to avoid being hit then to have a little higher protection when being hit.

If those iraqi tanks you mentioned, instead of staying put in their position, rushed to face those incoming american tanks, they could have gotten into range to shoot at them

the effect of an ambush is a short-term effect, once the enemy knows youre there and spotted your fire they will send whatever they've got your way, even if you catch them off-balance, you wont have it the second time around, BUT this same effect in a city remains as in a city you can move around undetected and thus set up a new ambush a few 100meters away and start all over.

In cities, the protection mostly comes from the fact that weapon ranges do not count as much, you will rarely be in a position to use the full range of your weapon because of all intermittent obstacles, this means all those short-ranged weapons will be used VS you while in the open you dont have to care about them.
Also, all obstacles remove some of the effects of the explosions as they cant fully send their shrapnel all around, mud is just not as good as stone to stop shrapnel.

open ground gives good sighting range so its more difficult to stay undetected for long.

So for me, entrenchment level is good, just build emplacements if you need that extra bit of protection.
User avatar
Sebastiaan
Colonel
Posts: 376
Joined: Aug 29 2005
Location: the Netherlands

Post by Sebastiaan »

One thing I notised about hills/mountains is that any stealth unit, no mather how high stealth, population or the loyalty of the hex, is instantly detected once it crosses the hill/mountain. Although a unit crossing a hill can get siloeted against the blue sky, however most of the time, the units will be hidden from view, when they move through hilly tarrain. I therefore suggest to remove this stealth detecting feature of hills, allow stealyh unit to cross hills/mountains without becoming detected instantly
not going forward eqeals to going backward
Post Reply

Return to “Land and Terrain”