broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

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warriorsoflight
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broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by warriorsoflight »

Hi all,

was wondering what is the deal with the United States, When she goes to war its financially over for this big bad boy country. Why does this country get into such a negative cash flow when she goes to war. I dont remember if in debt when not at war. Anyone know why she always goes into debt and how can this be fixed?
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Ruges
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by Ruges »

Couple reasons.
First off, The AI priorities military over economy. And that is probly the correct way it should be done. Many societies have collapsed becouse they over spent on thier military. And I suppose the theory here is if you are at war, you should win it, becouse if you dont you still loose.
Secoundly the AI does not brute the market. Meaning it will stop exporting if the price is falling, even thow it could still turn a profit.
Third if you start the game with debt on, Well these countries are already in the hole so deep, A world war is just going to bring them further into debt, Sure war is good for the economy, but that is just becouse the government is spending allot of money to have things built, and employ people.

But basicaly the game really revolves around war, with war being the priority, over economy.
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tkobo
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by tkobo »

It depends on the war.Ive seen them beat cuba hands down and stay in the black.And ive also seen them at war with mexico,canada and cuba and very deep in red ink.As well as multiple other combinations.

And ive seen them in that red ink situation, get peace treaties and climb back into the black.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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warriorsoflight
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by warriorsoflight »

thanks for your response.


in my games i always put the settings to no debt and depleted resources. I have looked at the US inventory and yes they do have tonnes of resources stockpiled. My problem with this game for the US is that its the only country that gets into such a huge debt compared to any other country. You dont need to actually fight the US, just declare war with them and they will bankrupt themselves

Is this also because of there military the most expensive. If i gave orders for the us to dispand there units will they not go into debt as they do?

Do they go into debt because of there lack of consumer goods, metal ores as they are always in the negative?

I know we can complain about this but is there anything we can do to actually fix this besides doing a mulitplayer game and fixing the US situation ourselfs. I basically fixed the us economy but i consider this cheating and dont want to have this be done for every handy cap of the AI
Ekeko
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by Ekeko »

Hi there!

I've actually seen this happen a bunch of times with several countries over and over again. Israel would be the most obvious one for me, they pretty much get destroyed every single time I play in less than two years usually about 20k in the red. Even odder would be Japan on low volatility, they gang up on north korea with SK and stay on defcon 3 forever even after NK is gone and end up around 300k or so in the red.
odenter
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by odenter »

Severel states are make high debts, wich can't be paid back. An other states build units, and units and units and units and going deeper than debt. ^^
This should be fixed.

Now I'm playing melted world, and only a few of my allies have no dept. Most have high debts, the whole world is on war, but only a few can fight, because only a few have money. ^^
catatonic
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by catatonic »

warriorsoflight wrote:I know we can complain about this but is there anything we can do to actually fix this besides doing a mulitplayer game and fixing the US situation ourselfs.
If you want to have a try at modding the game then go to the "Supreme Ruler 2020/MAPS" folder then open the .CVP file that corresponds to the Scenerio/Campaign that you want to play. Open the .CVP file with Notepad and scroll down to near the bottom of the file. There you will find a line that reads "regionname "United States". The code for the U.S. is 2999. Then scroll down to the line "nationaldebtgdp 0.xxx". I believe that setting this number to "0.0" will set the U.S. have no starting debt.

This will require you to backup and re-build your starting "cache" or .SAV file. This takes a long time which is why I did not test it for you.

Another problem is that many major regions start out with their Defense Minister having the "Massive Military Buildup" and "Increase Military Spending" priorities set by default. I don't know how to correct this, but maybe someone else does.
"War is merely the continuation of politics [diplomacy] by other means"
General Carl von Clausewitz - 1832

"Defense: De ting dat keeps de cows off de road."
Catatonic - 2012
warriorsoflight
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by warriorsoflight »

been looking at update 6 thats soon to be coming out and there seems to be improvements for trading units and maybe trading resources. I checked the US and the reason for the massive amounts of debt is there war prepareness. it totally kills them financially. There losing like 5 billion a day because of this.

thats crazy and unrealistic. Yes countries do go into debt when in war and will cause collapse but i dont think any other country goes into such a mess like the us in this game. to fix this u need to disband a large number of the us army
makaron111
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by makaron111 »

Israel and North Korea...

Both bankrupt themselves and both lose their wars 9/10 cases. (because of a huge army which they are not able to finance)

The reason why USA bankrupts itself ingame is because in game they cant sell infinite amounts of bonds like IRL.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Edit: To fix this you may also "help" the USA to get rid of its units. (With nukes or FRES). Or... Create your own orbat/cache.
medic911
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by medic911 »

I've still never seen the AI make peace on the ai. . . 3 and a half years into my latest as Somalia, the USA is no longer even fighting Cuba, or Israel Syria (the latter i think because they are out of men.) but they are still at war. USA has almost 10 trillion in debt and 1.361 trillion in negative treasury. They have 90/45/10/25 Fabrications, 4.2 million soldiers, and production set to only meet demand. I dont see a way out of this for them.

Does the AI really ever make peace with the other AI? just about damn near everyone is allied with everyone now also (but that is to be expected)
georgios
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by georgios »

It is a matter of better balance of production and trade. I we account the us service sector and the money that brings in, no bankruptcy occurs.
lorddrakenwode
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by lorddrakenwode »

Having pulled a few games in which I was playing as countries other than the United States out into multiplayer so I could load up as them, specifically because I wanted to see how in the world the United States could get itself so far buried financially, I noticed one common thread throughout: It seemed as though one of the first things that the US AI would cut in a deficit situation was, of all things, INFRASTRUCTURE. Now, in my opinion, even if you can pay for literally NOTHING else, every penny of 200% infrastructure spending should ALWAYS be spent. However, here sits the US, even maintaining decent levels in other social spending areas (circa 80-100% nominal), but infrastructure is at 5-10%. Consequently, of course, domestic production prices are absolutely insanely high, and it can't afford to do any domestic production.

Since I noticed a very high level of correlation between the US economy crashing and my playing a country that was able to export so high a volume of Consumer Goods that the market price was significantly reduced, I would additionally hypothesize that a major tipping point for the US could be squishing its economy by crashing Consumer Goods export prices, to starve its cash flow, and trigger that infrastructure-cutting feedback loop.

That being said, I consider the infrastructure cut to be a major AI flaw, as again, infrastructure is probably the very LAST thing you should ever cut. Might there be any way to remedy this? Is this speculation supported by other evidence?
georgios
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Re: broken or broke country, its all over, need to be fixed

Post by georgios »

This is the real us economy. If was left to follow market laws it would have collapse. Real usa avoids collapse because it has the power to control the world. But AI don't plays actively.
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