Battleships?

Place any military topics in this forum. How long can you run your country peacefully?

Moderators: Balthagor, Legend

Post Reply
The_Blind_One
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: May 28 2005

Post by The_Blind_One »

The best Dutch radar I've seen is the DA-05 (listed at 165km) which we clip to 107km. If you'd like to suggest a better system...
What?! are u mad!

I'll ask my dad he works at the navy and he told me that he could see the airplanes lift up at charles de gaulle in france with the radar while they were in dock in Den Helder :D

I'll ask what system it is and give u the specs

It picks up a B-2 stealth bomber just like anything else that flies the skies cause it's an actual 3d radar :D
The_Blind_One
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: May 28 2005

Post by The_Blind_One »

The best Dutch radar I've seen is the DA-05 (listed at 165km) which we clip to 107km. If you'd like to suggest a better system...
Actually we use the SMART-L and the APAR radar on our vessels, plz look them up I can't find any info so soon but the SMART-L should be around 400 km range :D
SMART-L is an advanced 3D multi-beam radar, which provides a long-range coverage of 400 kilometers. State-of-the-art technology in combination with refined signal processing guarantees excellent performance, especially against stealthy targets and ballistic missiles.
Taken from http://www.naval-technology.com/contrac ... ress2.html

some info on the APAR
Active Phased Array Radar

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to RadarThe Active Phased Array Radar (APAR) is designed to track more than 120 targets within a 60-degree field of view. The Phased Array Antenna will be designed to have elements, such that all transmitted/received Radio Frequency (RF) pulses are amplified from within the phase shifting modules.
The transmit duty cycle is at least 25% (as opposed to 0.5% on the Multiple object Tracking Radar (MOTR) thus allowing for a greater amount of average power on the target with higher Pulse Repetition Frequencies (PRFs), which allow for increased Doppler Resolution between close proximity targets. Real time Doppler tracking is designed into the APAR such that real time target discrimination between closely spaced targets can be achieved.

This system will enable more than 120 targets to be tracked, including multiple tracks at close proximity and debris tracking, i.e Doppler Resolution/Tracking.
The APAR (Active) is a 3D, multi-functional, X-band, active phased array radar system designed for F124 and LCF frigates. It provides surveillance, tracking, and missile guidance.
The APAR radar system features 150 km range and will provide the same advanced capabilities to European frigates than AN/SPY-1 provides to US cruisers and destroyers. Typically each APAR-equipped ship will carry 4 APAR antennas covering 360-degree of possible threat.
http://www.deagel.com/pandora/apar_de00254001.aspx

Also

this is the american variant
AN/SPS-52
The SPS-52 Navy shipboard 3-D Air Search radar is a very long range search radar with medium detection probability. As frequency is varied, the radar's beam axis changes, and scanning can be accomplished in one axis (either elevation or azimuth). Variation in frequency tends to make this radars more resistant to jamming than if operated at a fixed frequency, and it also provides a solution to the blind speed problem in MTI systems. Frequency scanning does impose some limitations in that a large portion of the available frequency band is used for scanning rather than to optimize resolution of targets. Additionally, this imposes the requirement that the receiver bandwidth be extremely wide or that the receiver be capable of shifting the center of a narrower bandwidth with the transmitted frequency.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship ... sps-52.htm

They clearly state it sucks at detecting stealth, however dutch designs are excellent on stealth detection, yet somehow u guys gave the US ships waaay to much credit on stealth detection and range...now that I think of it, u guys simply overpowered the US equipment for bloody hell I know what reason!

I think it would be in order that the european/world and specially the dutch ships should be heavily re-evaluated and be compared to their american counterparts.

Plz fix this :D
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Post by Balthagor »

My data on the APAR puts it at 60km vs. "medium" targets (large frigate to small destroyer).

SMART-L is better, 157km, but from the same source the SPS-52 is 180km.

http://www.clashofarms.com/files/Smarte ... %20Hpn.pdf

Another source (Periscope) agrees with you;
SMART-L
Intended to be standard Netherlands Navy air surveillance radar. Uses similar multi-beam, 3-D technique, but operates in the D band (formerly known as L band) range of 1-2 GHz. The lower frequency results in greater range, the planned maximum being 216 nm (249 mi; 400 km). Electrically stabilized a ntenna with span of 26 ft 3 in (8.00 m) -- almost twice the width of SMART-S.
But they give the SPS-52 a range of 450km against large targets and;
The AN/SPS-52 is a three-dimensional air search radar with electronic frequency scanning (FRESCAN) in elevation and mechanical rotation of the antenna in azimuth. It is an improved AN/SPS-39 using a planar antenna and having a longer range. Maximum range is 60 nm (111 km) against small, high-speed targets, and out to much greater distances against large, high-flying aircraft.
APAR on Persicope;
Instrument range:
horizon search 40.5 nm (46.5 mi; 75 km)
air target search 81 nm (93.1 mi; 150 km)
surface search 17.3 nm (19.9 mi; 32 km)
back-up volume search
81 nm (93.1 mi; 150 km)
Neither of my sources back up your claims, sorry. But thanks for pointing out the Smart-L, I'll make sure the ships that do use it have the correct ranges.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
The_Blind_One
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: May 28 2005

Post by The_Blind_One »

Just look it up on google, just type in the model name and you'll soon find 20 times more evidence wich support my case against urs, I think it's proposperous that the american counterparts have such huge range.

My dad works in the navy, and during tests we kicked american ass with accuracy, range and stealth detection.

We almost shot down a B-2 Bomber a couple of years back because it was flying in stealth mode over the netherlands and our radars picked it up as soon as it entered our waters. The pilot didn't respond thinking that he was safe (with his stealth) untill we almost shot it down with. He turned off stealth because he was getting way to much radar detection.

Just look it up man, ur using weird info there.

I'm sure we can detect with our SMART-L over 400 km, we can see planes easily coming up and down on charles de gaulle in france. That's over 400 km!!! I've seen it myself cause I was in the intelligence room :D

the APAR scans everything in a 150 km radius and even detects cannon fire, this is so our CIWS (wich has 400% more accuracy compared to the phalanx) can shoot ANYTHING down wich comes right at us. Our hulls might be thin, our guns might be small but our radar and and defence systems make up for all of that.

The seven province class is states as ''the most modern and advanced'' piece of equipment in the entire nato fleet, this is recognised...by all countries! it's specialisation is anti-air and anti-sub, aka it's the best anti-air ship in nato currently available....how the hell does it get rated so low?

I really wonder where u guys are getting ur info from.

Another thing, my dad's friend he works at the shipyard and he was the supervisor of the construction of the seven province's class and it only costs 44 million instead of 60ish million.

I'm not trying to bash u or BG but it just frustrates me to see equipment overpriced, undervalued, and just simply incorrect while american crap is heavily praised into heavens. :roll:
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Post by Balthagor »

The_Blind_One wrote:Just look it up man, ur using weird info there.
I know that you’re finding different info, but I gave you my sources and they are the sources we’ve used for everything in the game. I think we’re best to stick to one source and not try and figure out all the sources. We’re only talking about a 10KM difference here, which often means they detect the same number of hexes. And remember, we don’t give EITHER of them 400km, we’re of the opinion that EVERY country overstates the capabilities of it’s equipment.
The_Blind_One wrote:The seven province class is states as ''the most modern and advanced'' piece of equipment in the entire nato fleet, this is recognised...by all countries! it's specialisation is anti-air and anti-sub, aka it's the best anti-air ship in nato currently available....how the hell does it get rated so low?
Low? It’s one of the better ships in the equipment file IMHO. I updated the German ships to use the same radar (thanks for pointing me to the SMART-L) but it is only a Frigate. I still figure the Arleigh Burke to be about the same offensively with better defense thanks to its size, plus the use of SM2-ER on the AB means it gets better range that the Zeven Provincien which uses only SM2-MR.
The_Blind_One wrote:Another thing, my dad's friend he works at the shipyard and he was the supervisor of the construction of the seven province's class and it only costs 44 million instead of 60ish million.
Hmm, that’s a bother. I was going to go and change it, most of the prices for the ships are guesses anyway it is so hard to find the data, but then it would be much cheaper than all the other Dutch ships. So I was going to change all the Dutch ships, but then Dutch navies would be cheaper than other regions. I think we have a small balance problem in the price of the ships, but I think it is in all the ships, so as long as we get the relations relatively right it should not affect gameplay. I’ve made note of the price, I’ll see if at some point I can get things more in line. If you have any more data on ship prices, please send it along.
The_Blind_One wrote:I'm not trying to bash u or BG but it just frustrates me to see equipment overpriced, undervalued, and just simply incorrect while american crap is heavily praised into heavens. :roll:
I think you are much more concerned about these than I am. To be honest, with all the units that get entered we pick some sources and stick to them because there is not the time to stop and Google every system for every ship. Not to mention that half the time the sources I find from Google are not a sure thing for reliability of the data. Periscope is a fairly high-end military data website (almost 200$/day membership!) and has been our best bet for a solid source. We don’t usually concern ourselves with individual units unless they come up.

If you’d really like to see it changed, the best bet would be to look through some of the equipment file data and make suggestions on new values. I’ll continue to look at this one a bit, but it’s going to have to take a bit of a back seat to some of my other duties.

Heck, with my dad being from Belgium I’d love the see the BeNeLux units be the best in game ;)
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
The_Blind_One
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: May 28 2005

Post by The_Blind_One »

Low? It’s one of the better ships in the equipment file IMHO. I updated the German ships to use the same radar (thanks for pointing me to the SMART-L) but it is only a Frigate. I still figure the Arleigh Burke to be about the same offensively with better defense thanks to its size, plus the use of SM2-ER on the AB means it gets better range that the Zeven Provincien which uses only SM2-MR.
Okay this I understand...but u made a flaw with this.

Although it's ''classified'' as a frigate, it's actually a destroyer sized ship, the only trick they did was to lower the gun size to the right below the minimum destroyer class designation. That's because our designation as the netherlands is ''defence'' in NATO standards...so it has everything a destroyer has, except a gun wich is just 3 mm smaller than a destroyer and that makes it a frigate :S

It's actually a frigate/cruiser combo.

the gun for a destroyer is 150 mm, for a frigate it's 127mm, the ship has everything a destroyer has (and a cruiser has) except the 150 mm gun, wich makes it a frigate for nato standards, the ship is only I think like 10 m smaller than a medium destroyer, officially making it a frigate, however it's firepower, weaponry (except the gun) missile system and navy role are that of a frigate/cruiser :D (lately they even wanted to mount tomahawks on them :o )

Just one of the tricks we pulled.

so beef this puppy up man! :D

The ship can do medium naval bombardment and has the best anti-air and anti-sub technology of all NATO...

that's all I'm saying :D
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Post by Balthagor »

Getting back to this, almost done...
bergsjaeger wrote:Already got a Texas Crusier in the game. How about the Alaska seeing Alaska is the biggest state.
I'm already using Alaska for a Future CG unit, any other ideas?

Also need names for the Russian, Chinese and European ones...

Other than the names, only thing I still need to set is the Air Defense systems. For the US one I figure SM-2 ER, 283km range (go big or go home ;) ), but not sure what European system would be in any respect close to as effective. Even the better European ships use SM-2 MR (74km) which are US systems.

I'm using SA-N-6 for the Russian ship (100km) and the SA-N-7 (30km) for the Chinese ship.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
User avatar
haenkie
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 596
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: Netherlands

Post by haenkie »

Chris what stats do you have on these ones now then?

I let the fighting over the European unit be handled by the blind one (he knows his stuff), but undoubtly the US one will be the one to have if i have remembered everything you written earlier.
And if it would be like this, and i can read your mod files right i can change it's stats later on.

Annoying as this may be for someone not from the US, it is ultimately your choice as a developer.
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Post by Balthagor »

I didn't post all the attack/defense stats because there is no way to line up all the numbers on the forum, you just can't post tables here, but the US one is not the best at everything. It is the 2nd best at most things but it is 2 tech years beyond the European ship(105 vs. 107). The Russian one is best because of the gun and an assumption of more armor. For AA the US one is the best, as I mentioned in my last post I can't find any AA systems that match the performance of the US ones.

Best by stat;

Soft/hard/fort/naval surface att; Russian (457mm gun)
Ground Defense; Russian
Indirect/air defense; US/Russian tied
Naval submerged attack; European
AA range; US
Speed; Europe/US tied
Radar range; US by less than 5%
Price/Build time; China
Travel Range; US

so I still need an AA system for the European one and Names for all (Thinking USS Kanasa for the BB-07, gave the Russian one BB-1180...)
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
User avatar
bergsjaeger
General
Posts: 2240
Joined: Apr 22 2005
Location: Woods Bend, Alabama,USA

Post by bergsjaeger »

:lol: I been jumping in and out of the forum the past 2 weeks. (been on vacation :D ) As for names for the ships.

Colorado for US
Archangel for Russia
Dragon for China
Gaul :D for Europe
In war destroy everything even the livestock.
kender
Warrant Officer
Posts: 48
Joined: Nov 08 2005

Post by kender »

Some name for the ships:
US: name of state so: Alaska, Colorado, Michigan, New jersey?, New York...
Russia: name of event or city: Leningrad, Moscow, Vladivostok?, "Patriotic War"...

China: ????? don't know how they could name theirs ship for

Europe: name of city, Naval celebrity or old ship name, princip
Nelson, Class Europe, Bruxelle, Luxembourg, Strasbourg (Europeen administrations city), Fearless...
Gaul for Europe
:-( :-( :-? :-?
Seydlitz
Major
Posts: 194
Joined: Oct 09 2005
Location: UConn
Contact:

Post by Seydlitz »

China could use historical military figures and/or Communist ideas and such (like the Long March missiles).
User avatar
bergsjaeger
General
Posts: 2240
Joined: Apr 22 2005
Location: Woods Bend, Alabama,USA

Post by bergsjaeger »

Came up with other names for the BB's I guess these names can go with any country.

The Forbidden
The Ultima
The Sacred
The Shiva
The Eden
The Cerberus
The Leviathan

:lol: Just some names I came up with.
In war destroy everything even the livestock.
Richmonder
Sergeant
Posts: 23
Joined: Dec 12 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Post by Richmonder »

For the US battleship, I think it would be named for one of the storied historical ships. The North Carolina comes to mind, but I believe that there is a SSN being built that will get that name. How about the USS Constitution or Bonhomme Richard.
Fitch
Corporal
Posts: 7
Joined: Sep 01 2005

Post by Fitch »

Umm....How bout you stick to Normal US Navy ship Naming Conventions....

Battleships are named after States....
Post Reply

Return to “Military - 2020”