Ruges GC Mod (5.08(11-2-13))

[Inzann]

This mod seemed like fun reading about it but once I started playing I don't know what to think anymore. First of all the game is much slower then vanilla for some reason. Second whats with all the money coming from nowhere? I noticed the US has 15 trillion in cash and it keeps going up, Russia has 2 trillion and UK has 3. They must be getting money some way thats not legit. I also enabled debts and yet no country started with it. The new units and technologies attracted me to this mod but these other things really annoy me and I see no purpose with them.

[Ruges]

When you install the mod from the front page as it is directed. and then go into the campaign and see Ruges Mod 4.36 Beta. that is the acual mod of the game. And only that campaign will have the different units and things going on in the game, basicaly installing this mod only affects this campaign. With the exception of the AIParams file. When you put that file in, it will affect every game you play. But the only thing the AIParams file changes is what units it builds and what units it sends to the front line. And I much prefer my build over BG's build.

As for the game speed. my mod plays slower, allot slower. But I prefer the AI nations to acualy be doing stuff in the games I play rather that be a passive entity. And yea several AI nations do get a tiny income boost early in the game, this is to make them acualy viable at moving there militaries. I really really hate doing it, but it was the only way I found I could make the AI somwhat playable. I would much rather BG teach the AI to work its economy like a player does. But they have not done so and it is not modable.

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 54&t=20753 is a link to an AAR I am doing with this version of the mod. gives you a nice show of how the AI does more then your typical game.

[Inzann]

When you install the mod from the front page as it is directed. and then go into the campaign and see Ruges Mod 4.36 Beta. that is the acual mod of the game. And only that campaign will have the different units and things going on in the game, basicaly installing this mod only affects this campaign. With the exception of the AIParams file. When you put that file in, it will affect every game you play. But the only thing the AIParams file changes is what units it builds and what units it sends to the front line. And I much prefer my build over BG's build.

As for the game speed. my mod plays slower, allot slower. But I prefer the AI nations to acualy be doing stuff in the games I play rather that be a passive entity. And yea several AI nations do get a tiny income boost early in the game, this is to make them acualy viable at moving there militaries. I really really hate doing it, but it was the only way I found I could make the AI somwhat playable. I would much rather BG teach the AI to work its economy like a player does. But they have not done so and it is not modable.

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 54&t=20753 is a link to an AAR I am doing with this version of the mod. gives you a nice show of how the AI does more then your typical game.

But will the money keep flowing into their bank account or eventually stop? I feel no motivation working to make my country earn money when the AI cheats it. What is the reason behind the mod being so slow? If I played another campaign (not your mod but same AIparams file as you said) Will it still be as slow? Thank you for the reply!

I also noticed USA has like 250 land factories and 100 air factories, russia is a bit lower on land but has more air factories.

[Ruges]

Its not infinate money, just at the start some countries recieve a few cash infusions.

[jimmyflow]

Ruges,

I noticed in your on-going conflict ([RM 4.36] Indonesia DAR), your starting settings are as follows;

Military: Very Hard
Econ: Normal
Diplo: Very Easy
Hot relations: Very High
Random Events: Very High
Aproval effects: Medium

What are the differences in the various settings in your campaign? Reading your above conflict, it seems just by having Military: Very Hard, the battles waged between countries are significantly different than if the military setting was Medium. When I play, I usually keep everything medium and for example, South Korea gets pummeled by China and China/Russia have a very easy time wiping out other countries. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from reading your Indonesia campaign, countries seem to be lasting longer with Military: Very Hard.

I'd like to play with the various settings to see what I get, but it would be nice to see your input.


Thank you!
-JimmyFlow

[Ruges]

Its kinda funny the way my game is playing out. when I was testing the mod Russia usually whomps Europe. Although in a few tests I got results like I have now. and a couple other tests with completely different results. So even with the same settings you wont always get the same results. Also remember that player interaction does affect what happens in the world. In my AAR game I was heavily focused on assisting my allies. During a couple campaigns my allies fronts received more support from me than my own front. I helped South Korea out allot, and I believe its my help that led to them not falling.

As for my settings I always go with military very hard. as this gives the AI allot of benefits to do more. econ normal. since I don't see allot of benefits to the AI, and it hurts the player to much to go very hard. And of course diplo very easy. since that actually makes it so the world does not turn into hippyville so quickly.

[jimmyflow]

As for my settings I always go with military very hard. as this gives the AI allot of benefits to do more. econ normal. since I don't see allot of benefits to the AI, and it hurts the player to much to go very hard. And of course diplo very easy. since that actually makes it so the world does not turn into hippyville so quickly.

So harder settings make a more intelligent AI? I think I understand the military aspect of harder difficulties, but what about the other two?

Economy - harder means less trades or just a smarter AI in terms of economic management?

Diplo - Does harder mean more or less conflict?

Thanks Ruge! I'm going to start another game to see what happens. Too much fun starting out...

[Ruges]

You should always play diplo at very easy. This causes the AI to slowly dislike each other over time. Which almost counter balances its slow climb towards loving each other. So you should end up getting a world at war instead of a one world alliance. Also having diplo at very hard will mean the AI will start to love other AI over time and start to hate the player over time. The only thing you need to watch yourself doing with it at easy, is remember you have a strong advantage in trade, so try not to abuse the system to much.

As for the economy seting. I have not played with it enough. although I would suspect having it set at very hard would be best for the AI's economy.

[jimmyflow]

That makes sense... thanks!

[Ruges]

Taking update requests for version 5

[DiegoEsteban]

Im curious about the missile model. All missiles have very high defense values. That doesnt make them near impossible to intercept? I think that a subsonic missile like a Harpoon or an Exocet should not be that hard to shoot down for an AEGIS ship.

[Ruges]

Im curious about the missile model. All missiles have very high defense values. That doesnt make them near impossible to intercept? I think that a subsonic missile like a Harpoon or an Exocet should not be that hard to shoot down for an AEGIS ship.

Ships are geting bonuses to AA in the next update to address this issue.

[Kellick]

Guess I should introduce myself. I've been lurking here for a few years now. I spend more time modding the game and trying to overcome it's limitations than I do playing. I have learned a tremendous amount from your efforts and the knowledge you have shared (I know most of the modding info on the wiki comes from your posts and development of this mod) so a big thanks to you Ruges for sharing all your hard work. Most of my observations are from my own modding (although I do use your AIparams and recently your events) although I have played with your mod as is a bit as well.

Im curious about the missile model. All missiles have very high defense values. That doesnt make them near impossible to intercept? I think that a subsonic missile like a Harpoon or an Exocet should not be that hard to shoot down for an AEGIS ship.

Ships are geting bonuses to AA in the next update to address this issue.

How much bonus? Some things are overcompensated to cope with a design flaw which adds a new problem, and then overcompensating to deal with the new issue can cause more. Then you'll need to up the defense on aircraft units as well. Then you'll need to up the attack values of AA units again. Rinse, repeat.

Not that the ships AA doesn't need to be revisited (all unit balance really needs to be revisited, vanilla - not just yours).
I think with the extra missile build slots that the extreme def str changes you made to the missiles were unneeded. One change I have made is making AD units 20 instead of 40 (wmdata - battstrdefault). It seems to help balance things a bit. It isn't an issue to send enough missiles to saturate AD when you are building 20-50 per facility (your settings through various versions). I'm using a buildcap of 10 and it seems I have enough.

Taking update requests for version 5

1. Lower missile defense back to defaults. Change AA batt size to 20.

2. Clean (remove invalid units/techs) and update (advance everyone another 10 TL) ORBATS, country starting tech and units - this game should have been called SR 2010 V 2 instead of 2020. This is especially important for your unit file where I've noticed countrys get new high tech stuff they shouldn't because you used an empty number that was in someones list (I've noticed Canada has a bunch of the HT hovercraft, France very HT missile and techs, some others I forget)

Also all the LCU, LCAC, etc need to go. Any naval transport that isn't big and fast enough to transport a few battallions minimum should be cut. So do most if not all patrol planes (ai doesnt seem to use them at all, even with your params, so maybe leave a few of the useful ones for players) Ditto for most of the patrol boats. Bridging units - the ai doesn't seem to know how to use them and since I just use engineers. This would improve game performance a bit. I'm actually for doing a reduction in starting forces across the board (for performance), but it is a lot of work to do it and keep the game balance.

3. Remove the hard atk from asm; while it solves the problem of land launcher being full of them it introduces its own problem, the ai uses them inappropriately. It just wastes them. It would be better to remove the platform type. It isn't like the ai properly supports amphib assaults with attack ships anyway and there are plenty of air launched asm. Also as micromanaging missiles is a nightmare in this game (I only do it for some) the ai needs to be on a leash for it to be useful for the player as well. It is very hard to get the dm to load the missiles I want even using the roe. Giving it less choices to be confused about what you want helps.

4. Alliances & Events. Love these. Learned a lot of neat tricks just seeing what you have done. Couple central american countries should probably go into commie alliance. Actually I think a few more seperate blocks would help keep the game flowing. The US is too slow to do anything and they overbuild like a mofo. Even with the (over)generous cash infusions (I've dropped a zero off all of them, thinking about dropping 2) the US still goes way into debt. Since as of your last build I think the AI is making 20x the missiles, might help to drop prices on them. Same for some units (B-2 is really ridiculous). I know our stuff all costs more, and most of it has better stats...but the real world price jumps over the years are mostly because of inflation, corruption and incompetence. (It's funny how Balthagor captured that in game, some of the newest US equip costs more and is less capable than what it replaces) Anyway, diverging into unit re-balancing. That could use it's own entire topic.

Noteworthy for the above that I don't use your extended facility build times. Might keep spending and over-abundance of units down (since there will be less fabs) a bit but I am not sure how much it helps.

The US needs more enemies for several reasons - It would keep their unit sprawl down (which cuts down on the game slowness), it would also keep their costs down since while there is no way to stop the ai from building, at least more of their units would be dieing so maintenance costs would go down. It also goes with the GC storyline.

Another good option would be to split the US up into seperate warring factions. Maybe not so extreme as SW, but like what Fistalis did with his uscrisis mod (I havent tried it but its on my todo list). Incorporating the UN protectorate from SW might not be a bad idea either, all those little island nations don't serve much purpose.

5. Reduce uranium production a bit (it did need increasing but I think you overdid it). Also reduce ore production (thats vanilla but again there seems to be way too much) While you're there (wmdata file) you can cut the AA battallion size to 20

6. AIparams. Awesome work here. Especially getting George involved to discover why the subs weren't ever moving (not that they do much still..Naval AI leaves a lot to be desired). That being said I think it needs some tweaking still. I never really took much notice of the builds until recently. My current testbed I am playing as south africa since they are one of the decent sized neutrals and they are out of the way. I turned FOW off and mostly sat and watched the world turn. I was letting the game run mostly unattended for days so I let the AI run a lot of things.

I did some unit trading for my usual favorites. I had to pay through the nose and give away a lot of tech (used to easier diplomacy starts), which in hindsight also skewed the way things turned out (Germany took out Russia in year 7 and is about to finish India off. Germany is putting a big hurting on China too, they are down to the coast) .Romania also did well in the war vs Russia. Israel demolished the whole middle east and is working their way through Africa. USA of course took out most of SA through amphib assault into Venezuala, Holland, UK and France also sent landings. After Columbia took out Panama, Germany did send an assault force but I lost track of the battle and they got crushed there.) Since I normally leave FOW on and of course am busy with my own assaults I was amazed at how many amphib assault attempts I saw. The problem is the AI only sends transports and they either run out of fuel or get gunned down by lone missile armed patrol and frigates. Other than the USA pounding Cuba for 3 years before they got around to invading (with destroyers, cruisers, subs, carriers with aircraft), I haven't seen much warship action. Makes me wonder what the conditions are to trigger AIREQSEAATTACK actually are. Also I noticed with AIREQSEASUPPLY that they never seem to send ships, I could understand if the amphibs are tied up but I have never seen any of the few trans left since update 8 that arent amphib capable leave the pier. I have seen planes get sent, which of course doesn't work (because ships cant get supply from fixed wing). It would have to be a chopper, which type 14 there doesnt seem to be a way to force, although I would think with m/m 0 it would check the attack str and since most of the transport choppers have some atk and the fixed wing don't it would prefer them.

Sorry, I started rambling there. I'm also jumping back and forth between aiparams and units (hard to seperate). So anyway about builds. Noticed it will only build 1 type of unit from each class. Didn't see a lot of difference with def vs off pref, but maybe I didnt leave it on def long enough. For most units this is ok but for ships it only built Gerald Ford, CG71, I forget what frigate (think I had laser armed frigs by the time it built one), and AOE-6. The problem is I would have liked some Wasps, San Antonios, Zumwalts and Arleigh Burkes. The AOE-6 and other big US cargo ships are also a problem since they can't conduct amphib assaults, but then I guess that is why you have the US being given San Antonios by event a few times.

AIREQAIRSUPPORT I'm confused why you send 3 int and only 1 bomber. Also I noticed that in the vanilla params there is no build order for multirole, yet there are move orders. I am wondering does the default AI never build multiroles? They seem to be a problem in general since pretty much all modern airframes are multirole, although in game most of them are really still only suited for 1 or the other (the interceptor type multis really only good for ground atk when you load missiles on them). I did notice however that for example when I had Cougar (SA int) and both of the new Raptors that it built all 3. So even though the mr Raptor is far superior to the Cougar, the cougar was the best type 9 I had. I'm thinking about reclassing most of the multiroles as 9 or 10 and either keeping 11 for naval air(since AI only builds best of each type) or possibly using it for something else altogether (maybe non amphib transport ships and seeing if it will actually use them for supply or some other subclass of unit, or separating destroyers from cruisers/battleships...since it seems that dock to unload=false are the criteria for amphib assault and the patrol boats do their own thing (and most if not all frigates do too), I would imagine whatever purpose you give other classes the aiparams would handle). If that's workable type 3 could be salvaged as well, AT units could get merged into tank and inf as appropriate.

AIREQBATTLESUPPORT, note is "Request support for a land battle (not used by AI at present)" - is that still true?

AIREQAIRINTERCEPT - would throwing a type 5 aa or 2 into the mix be useful?

unitweighting - with the range being the overwhelming weight on artillery, nothing but MRLs get built, suggest lowering it so that howitzers get built as the norm and then the missile pref flag can be used to specify MRLs (most of them have missile cap, and the ones that dont should anyway). Possibly the same for AD since nothing but MIMs get built, and maybe some other types of units to give some variety. It would require adding a missilecap of 1 to those units and then removing any size 1 missiles (think the basic bomb is the only 1...just double all stats on it and make it a size 2) but it might be doable. Engineers should be added back into the mix as well. They were overnerfed. This involves adding more units, but there should be comparable combat engineer vehicles to go with each new major vehicle line, and if the stats were set right so that the regular infantry would be prefered unless the engineer flag were used (actually I think just a longer buildtime would do it, even if all the other stats were the same), then adding an engineer back to the builds would be doable. For those who think its unrealistic, the US Army is going back to triangular divisions and also adding an engineer btn to each bde.

Airborne assaults. You mention them on page 1, but have you or anyone else ever seen one? That being said at any rate I think more of the future units need airborne capability. Special capabilitys seem to be mostly ignored on the future units (talking more about vanilla than yours). Even if the AI doesn't, I do enjoy having my AB divisions, Marine Corps, etc. Carrier capable aircraft are another thing that seems neglected late tech. Combat times (most stats really) are also all over the board. So we've got helicopter gunships with 60 hours and destroyers with 4. Especially since the AI doesn't ever send an oiler out (when it even sends destroyers out) they will fire once and head back to port. I know most of the future units were added by various people, even the official ones came out of different mods, but I always wondered what formula was used originally to calculate unit stats. I've been trying to derive one but it isn't easy.

[Thumboy]

This is a very good mod. My favorite part is the Ai! Usually when Mexico and the USA go to war, nothing much happens, but this time, the Americans have made a huge push, taken Mexico City and are now heading for Mexico's new capital. They also have taken the señora desert and part of Baja California!

We'll done

[oberkommando]

I would love to see an updated unit table. Since the release of SR2020, many projects have been unveiled.