Newbie Questions

Discussion about Production and Resources

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plugger
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Newbie Questions

Post by plugger »

Goodaye,

Apologies in advance if I'm repeating a previous post but I'm still scratching my head on a couple of items despite searching.

1. Under "Expenses" in commerce (yep, I know this is a Production area, bear with me...), what does "Production" specifically refer to?

2. If I want to increase the efficiency of a particular industry I'm assuming that I can increase spending on the industry efficiency slider or increase my level of infrastructure spending (under Social Spending). Am I correct in assuming that efficiency gains would be more robots in the factory and infrastructure gains would be a better road network?

3.Is there any way of quantifying or finding out what a particular level of infrastructure does for your industry?

4.What's best to do in order to improve your industry - Infrastructure or Efficiency?

5.I read in the Economics AAR that if you hook your industry directly up to a road or rail line that this also helps. How much and is it shown anywhere?

Lots of questions. Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Plugger
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Post by Lightbringer »

Welcome to the forums Plugger. We don't mind discussing stuff, so feel free to ask away. :)
1. Under "Expenses" in commerce (yep, I know this is a Production area, bear with me...), what does "Production" specifically refer to?
"Production" refers to the overall cost to make that product. Labor, materials etc. Export and domestic sales prices need to exceed this to make a profit on that item.

2. If I want to increase the efficiency of a particular industry I'm assuming that I can increase spending on the industry efficiency slider or increase my level of infrastructure spending (under Social Spending). Am I correct in assuming that efficiency gains would be more robots in the factory and infrastructure gains would be a better road network? basically, yes

3.Is there any way of quantifying or finding out what a particular level of infrastructure does for your industry?
The best way to do this is to begin building a factory (or oil well etc.). You can move the icon for that upgrade around to different areas and see directly what the production differences are for hexes with low and high supply ratings. Cities and military bases increase supply.

4.What's best to do in order to improve your industry - Infrastructure or Efficiency? I prefer infrastructure, because it also increases supply to military units. but I also let my production minister set efficiency investments, so some of both really.

5.I read in the Economics AAR that if you hook your industry directly up to a road or rail line that this also helps. How much and is it shown anywhere?
As I mentioned, bases and cities each provide supply. The radius of this supply is increased and "bleeds" further out along roads and railways. So four hexes away from a base through open terrain will be slightly less supplied, than four hexes away along a road.
I hope these answers helped, just ask if you have any further questions.

-Light
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” -Winston Churchill
plugger
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Post by plugger »

Goodaye,

Many thanks for the informative reply. Could I clarify point one.

If, for example, I have seven coal mines producing 9000t of coal a day at a production cost price of, say $30, does that mean I'm (as in me the despostic leader of 'Coal_Land_istan') having to pay 9000 x $30 each day in production costs which shows up under the Expenses tab, along with similar costs for the other resources?

And if that's so I probably then have to flog my 9000t of coal each day either on the Domestic or Export Market at more than cost price in order to make a buck as you've indicated. What happens if I put half my coal in my stockpile?

Cheers,
Plugger
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Post by el_slapper »

plugger; coal miner wrote:(.../...)If, for example, I have seven coal mines producing 9000t of coal a day at a production cost price of, say $30, does that mean I'm (as in me the despostic leader of 'Coal_Land_istan') having to pay 9000 x $30 each day in production costs which shows up under the Expenses tab, along with similar costs for the other resources?
Yes. If something is costing you 30$ & you are selling it 28$, you are basically losing money here. Usually coal does not have this problem, but it is frequent with finished goods.
plugger, stockpile master wrote:And if that's so I probably then have to flog my 9000t of coal each day either on the Domestic or Export Market at more than cost price in order to make a buck as you've indicated. What happens if I put half my coal in my stockpile?

Cheers,
Plugger
your stock increases by 4,500t, and you get money only from the other 4,500t you sell.
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Post by Balthagor »

plugger wrote:...And if that's so I probably then have to flog my 9000t of coal each day either on the Domestic or Export Market at more than cost price in order to make a buck...
To add to el_slapper's response, Coal is not used Domestically, that is why we won't see a markup setting on the production panel. It is a raw good used in the production of things like industrial goods. The cost of the coal that is needed to produce industrial goods is factored into the industrial goods cost. So even if you can't make money from coal, you can use it to make industrial goods and then sell those goods for profit.

What you want to look at is the treasury department income and expense reports. If you Production expense+trade purchases is less than your domestic sales+trade sales then you're making money.

Example;

Production: 325M
Domestic Sales: 285M
Previous Day Trade: 75M

you made 35M that day

Example;

Production: 345M
Domestic Sales: 205M
Previous Day Trade: 75M

you lost 65M that day
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Post by tkobo »

Another thing is you cant just use a corporate balance sheet here, because the government effectively owns the businesses in sr2010.

And thats the angle from which profit is looked at.Soooo, dont forget to factor in taxes, which the government gets to take from the workers.

Imagine if the company you worked for collected your social security tax, and than instead of adding to it and passing it to the gov, kept it and applied it to its income.

Because theres no seperation between gov and industry in the game those taxes count as income from the business that can be applied against expenses when you go to figure out if the bussiness is making a profit.

So if sale of goods as expressed above is showing only a small loss, you still might actually be making a profit depending on your tax income.
Again becuase in the game, you the government are paying the production costs, which include labor costs,from which you the government also make money by charging taxes on.
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plugger
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Post by plugger »

Goodaye,

O.K, thanks for all the replies. It's starting to make sense. I'm still having trouble getting to grips with Industry however. When I flash up onscreen a report showing all my coal mines in 'Coal_Land_istan' I get an figure for both 'condition' and 'supply' for each mine.

I'm unclear what the relationship is between condition / supply and production.

I've figured out the following...

Building the mine in the first place gives a terrain cap on max production for that site.

Supply is related to distance from supply sources and road / rail network plus infrastructure spending.

Efficiency improvements for the entire Coal industry are actually more a government subsidy and that they have various effects, improving actual production being one.

Actual production from a mine is a function of Ov. Coal Ind. Eff x Mine condition (?) as a percentage applied to the max. coal prod. capacity for that particular hex.


So...

Where does the 'Condition' figure for each mine come from?

What function does the 'supply' figure of the hex that the mine is in have?

How do the two relate to production?

Cheers,
PLugger
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Post by Balthagor »

Condition is a combination of "size" and "Health". When building a coal mine you can only build up to the condition supported by the raw resources in the ground. When attacked the condition will decrease. You can see the exact output of a given coal mine in the land department (<Ctrl+Right Click> on the hex)

The supply level of a hex affects the level of output of the industry in that hex. Same with loyalty.
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Post by Lightbringer »

Hmmm, Chris seemed a bit vague there. Let me put it this way, sticking with coal mines. The larger the "condition", the better the deposit of coal. 13% is pretty crappy, and 67% is somewhat a mother load. What Chris was getting at, is "condition" is also linked to how developed the deposit actually is. Some get damaged by combat, and some start off underdeveloped, so on your detail list of coal mines, it might be a good idea to individually highlight every mine, and upgrade those that allow it. You can have a very large deposit with one rinky-dink, hand dug, 1850s style mine shaft.

As for supply, think of it this way. If your mine has to ship the coal 150 miles by dump truck to a rail head, over unpaved wasteland, it is going to slow down the rate at which you can use the coal. Even if the shiny new super mine can dig it faster than your supply can move it. So low supply reduces production.

hope that helped visualize it for you. :P

-Light
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plugger
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Post by plugger »

Goodaye,

O.K. Let me see if I have this straight.

When you build a new coal mine the resource capacity of the hex you choose to build in determines the maximum 'condition%' of the mine. You don't get to see this number onscreen.

The condition% you do see is a function of your coal mine technology. Eg. if your base coal mine technology gives you, say a 50% condition level, then you will see 50% onscreen (once the mine is built) regardless of the fact that the hex resource is a higher number condition%, say 70%.

You can then upgrade your mine until it reaches the maximum allowable condition, in this case 70%.

Conversely if you build your mine on a crappy coal seam with a maximum condition% (determined by raw resource level of hex) of say 20% then the most you'll ever get out of your mine is a condition% of 20% despite the fact that your mine is capable of a lot more (50%).

Oh, and in the event of military action your condition% could drop due to bomb damage to the main conveyor feed line. This can be repaired back to it's original level.

Additionally I gather from other forum posts that the game doesn't model resource depletion so a 70% condition hex will always remain at 70%.

Have I hit the nail on the head or am I still stumbling around in the dark?

Cheers,
Plugger
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Post by Lightbringer »

You have it right, except tech level or whatever does not reduce the "condition level" new built coal mines can achieve. Some of the facilities at the start of the game are not up to par, but anything you actually build new will reach full capacity. Facilities you start with, and facilities you have captured from the AI are the prime targets of "upgrading", as the AI does not upgrade these.

-Light
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plugger
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Post by plugger »

Goodaye,

Excellent. It's starting to make sense. Thanks for all the help. One more question.

Are labour costs a functioning part of production? Eg. If I have a coal mine producing, say a 1000 t of coal in one country will it's production costs be the same as an identical set-up in another country with the sole exception being that the second country has a much lower GDP/c?

Cheers,
Plugger
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Post by Lightbringer »

I don't know the exact formula, but yes, Labor/GDP is part of production cost. I am always glad to respond with information. I love this game, and it is a joy to help others explore it. Aside from that, I benefit from having to "verbalize" and condense ideas and tactics that may have only been jumbled separate items in my own noggin. ;)

Let us know how the economy behaves for you...

-Light
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Post by tkobo »

Also, you can see what the prospective resource capacity of the hex is, by examinging the hex while the build order is active.

The stronger the color, the higher the resource capacity.AND it will tell you the expected resource production of a given hex were you to build a facility in it, under its current economic and supply situation.
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plugger
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Post by plugger »

Goodaye,

Seeing as you don't mind questions and you're all being extremely helpful, I'll throw another one out.

I can't figure out the trade balance calculations. I've read the dev's post on it above but it doesn't translate to what I'm seeing onscreen. I ran a simple test by putting everything to manual control at the start. I then set four different commodities that where producing a surplus to sell on the export market (ticked 'autoprice' and 'export surplus'. Set surplus to sell to 100% in all cases).

This is what happened.

Image

I'm slowly and surely going broke because the Budgeted Daily Trade (which I assume is some kind of estimate based on past results) is translating directly into an ever increasing Trade Deficit. This is despite the fact that I'm actually making a lot of money exporting (the sales are erratic but they add up to a lot).

My postiive terms of trade aren't translating to the bottom line and instead the airy fairy budgeted daily trade figure is coming straight out of my treasury.

What's going on?

Cheers,
Plugger
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