AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

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Zuikaku
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:I've pointed George to this thread, I'll let him discuss the issue.
So, any news? Any hope for AI to be more receptive to peace treaties. And AI vs. AI wars not lasting forever??
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Balthagor
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Balthagor »

That'll teach me not to attache a ticket number, I can't nag George about it as easily. I will bring it to his attention again.
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Zuikaku
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:That'll teach me not to attache a ticket number, I can't nag George about it as easily. I will bring it to his attention again.
20170
OK, he does not need to waste time explaining since he has actuall work to do. But it woul'd be nice if someting can be done about this issue...
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Zuikaku
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

Anything planned on this annoying issue??
I hope that soon we'll see the end of endless wars....
In next update maybe? :D
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Zuikaku
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

I have noticed that AI is now offering peace more often - at least in case of wars when they lose ally. Was something done with AI vs.AI wars?
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Atraphoenix
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Atraphoenix »

I have observed that AI wars ends only when one of them eliminates other, 3 game years passed in my last game still only elimination no peace. This time Japan still hold Korea, and Manchuria is still alive but chinese border was in a stalemate.
I am testing SRU on capture victory Ethiopia fell much more later in my previous total victory. I think thanks to command units capitals survives much more.

What surprised me that Italy declared war on France before Germany invades Poland no idea why. I am very curious about its affects on Germans because everyday emplacements on Maginot Line changes hand but France still recover them and ıtaly uses rinse and repeat tactic. I suppose when Germans invade France, she may fell much more sooner because Italy once captured a quarter of Maginot Line.
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Zuikaku
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

It is '46 in my game. situation is somewhat annoying.

Italy and ethiopia are in complete stalemate. Italian units are overstretched all over the europe/asia/africa and in small numbers due to heavy losses. And supply issues are bogging them in ethiopia. War lasts for more than 10 years, but AI do not intend to make peace |O

Germany and Soviet union are stalemated at Ural mostly due to german supply issues (something really have to be done about that). Hundred of german units are out of supply in the wastness of USSR for years. Soviets are unable to launch any offensive due to low production capacity. But no peace |O

Germany and Norway - nothing happens in this war. German AI is unable to invade Norway. After 6 years, no peace??! C'mon!! |O

Germany and USA. Since UK is kicked out of war, only US and German navies fight from time to time. But, no peace at all |O

Axis and ex UK/French colonies. Why are they at war after all? Ofcourse, nothing happens, and not any peace deals. |O

Japan and China. Millions of casualties on both sides. Armies are devastated, situation stalemated- ofcourse, no peace |O

While I inderstand that AI is totally unaware of its situation but something can be done to make it's actions more reasonable. What can be used to influence ending AI vs. AI wars?

- low MAR. If military is demoralized, it is logicall to seek peace.

-low DAR. If public opinion is against war AI should sue for peace

- If combined unit production capacity (land+air+naval production) of the region is 2X or more inferior than the combined production capacity of the rafion with whom at war, AI should have a chance to offer peace

- if number of units available is 50% or less of optimal unit number, AI should know that it is in troble 8be it losses or other causes). And, ofcourse that would increase the chance for peace. By giving units to region, player could keep region in war :-)

- lack of strategic goods. If the stocks of food, oil, IGs or MGs are low or empty, AI should know that it has exhaustet capacity to wage war and try to sue for peace.

- losses of territory. If the territorial gains are in red, AI shoul'd know that things are not going well

- being in war with too much regions. If at war with tens of regions, AI shoul'd know that things are spiraling out of control and try to make peace with as much of them as possible. the smallest and most distant regions being a priority.

- wars with distant regions. when in war with regions on other continents/theaters, AI shoul'd be more prone to making peace deals with them.

- lack of allied nations. If fighting a war without allies, region shoul'd be more happy with idea of making peace.

- distant allies. If region's allies are on another continent/theatre, AI shoul'd know it's in tough situation and try to get a peace

Now, not only one condition is enough to make peace, but combined, cumulative effects. Let me give you a few examples:

1. Germany fighting Norway in my game. norway has only distant allies left. It's production capacity is inferior to german's. It has limited supply of IGs and MGs. So it seeks for peace. Germany also wants peace because fighting with too many enemies, low DAR, lack of 3 strategic resources.

2. Italy and ethiopia. Italy is in war with too many regions, Ethiopia is on other continent, number of italian units is only 20% of optimal numbers, it lacks MGs and IGs and DAR is very low. Ethiopian military prod. capacity is inferior to italian ,it has lost teritory, has only 30% of desired optimal numbers of units and lacks food, MGs, IGs and oil. So, making peace is logical.

3. finland vs. USSR. Finns have inferior military production capacity, but have close allies, are at war only with USSR, have gained territory. They also have 300% of desired optimal number of units since german player have been giving them to Finland. So, no peace!

4. Japan vs. china. japan has lost teritory, lacks all resources and have 10% of desired optimal number of units. chinese MAR is horrible, china has no close allies, and havee only 20% of desired optimal numbers of units. so, they make peace.


any thoughts or suggestions on this?
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way2co0l
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by way2co0l »

I definitely agree in principle, but there are a lot of things that need to be considered for the scope of the game that's being represented. Being a world war, especially on the scale WW2 was fought, it's highly likely that some nations might meet several of these conditions, such as Brazil being brought in on the allies side, no other nearby allies, inferior production capacity to its enemies, ect. I'm only bringing this up to remind everyone it's unlikely to be easy due to the vast number of variables that would need to be taken into account while still simulating the concept of a world war. I don't want you to think I'm shooting you down or just being critical, and I do believe we need more ideas to find a working solution so I'm happy you posted your thoughts. Just wanting to put that out there for any additional posts anyone will make is all.
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

way2co0l wrote:I definitely agree in principle, but there are a lot of things that need to be considered for the scope of the game that's being represented. Being a world war, especially on the scale WW2 was fought, it's highly likely that some nations might meet several of these conditions, such as Brazil being brought in on the allies side, no other nearby allies, inferior production capacity to its enemies, ect. I'm only bringing this up to remind everyone it's unlikely to be easy due to the vast number of variables that would need to be taken into account while still simulating the concept of a world war. I don't want you to think I'm shooting you down or just being critical, and I do believe we need more ideas to find a working solution so I'm happy you posted your thoughts. Just wanting to put that out there for any additional posts anyone will make is all.
C'mon, people, bring in more of your ideas, please!! Sometimes i think i'm the only one that is annoying BGs with suggestions :oops:

Yes, you are right. Maybe regions shoul'd in addition even consider combined unit production capacity of all of it's allies. And for Brazil... it was not a matter of life and death , so i don't think they woul'd fight on untill 1950...

but my point is something have to be done about this. It is very annoying to watch endless AI vs. AI wars :-(

Even the simple random chance of 5% to end war every month would be far better than this situation... maybe to add a new lobby option for this :oops: :-)
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

Have played my Irish game for 20 (game time) years now. And have seen none of AI vs. AI wars ending with peace/ceasefire treaty.
So basically, Japan and china are stalemated for 20 years. Italy and Ethiopia too.
germany is stalemated with USSR and USA. Not to mention other smaller regions.

that is really very unrealistic and unbelieveable situation. And it is much stranger situation than the one where AI regions woul'd from time to time make peace deals. Even the pure random chance for peace is better than this total war madness.

-prevent AI from demanding money in peace offers. That might be the problem we do not see any AI vs. AI peace deals. Demanding money has no any sense since AI is totally unaware of it's situation. It may be losing the war but it will still demand absurd amounts of money.

- AI vs. AI wars should sometimes have chance to end. randomly or the other way

- and ofcourse, great thing for replayability would be starting non scripted AI vs. AI wars from time to time :D
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dax1
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by dax1 »

other solution.
The UN / League of Nations may choose (randomly or among the best Teatry integrity) a country to mediate peace ... if the third country has good relations with both in war, peace is achieved otherwise not.
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Zuikaku
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

dax1 wrote:other solution.
The UN / League of Nations may choose (randomly or among the best Teatry integrity) a country to mediate peace ... if the third country has good relations with both in war, peace is achieved otherwise not.
Random peace deals woul'd be much more easier to implement. Not that I do not like the idea, but..
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Zuikaku
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

'43 in my game now. all regions are pretty much out of units so there are only local skirmishes when lone units try to attack garrisoned cities. but still not a single AI region will make or propose peace. And situation like this could last for decades which is most annoying.
the only solution I see at the moment is to load save game as multiplayer and end pointless wars through "forged" diplomacy.

Is there any possibility to add 5% random chance every month for AI regions to make peace??? |O
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Zuikaku
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Zuikaku »

double post....
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Rawlings01
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Re: AI vs. AI wars - sandbox

Post by Rawlings01 »

Hello all iv been playing SR 2020 GC im 4 years into my current game and although iv set relations to very hot to make would more volotile nothing has happend no wars nothing its been very boring what do my settings have to be to get AI nations to start wars against other AI or even me.
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