Production auto adjustment balance changes

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way2co0l
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Production auto adjustment balance changes

Post by way2co0l »

So I'm not actually sure if this is the term for it, but what I mean is the mechanic that attempts to fix worldwide gluts and deficiencies by adjusting the output of existing production.

Basically I'd like to officially request that there be a change to the way it's done. I think that the way it increases production for goods is a good thing, but I believe the part where it decreases production is problematic. Let's say there's a worldwide glut for consumer goods, but the country you are actually playing does not actually produce enough to supply its own demand so you build more to try to match it. If the mechanic then adjusts the production of all consumer goods production down worldwide since you are effectively only making the oversupply in the world worse, it will simply make you have to build even more facilities just to achieve self sufficiency. More operating expenses for less output and simply creating a strain on world economies as the AI is never good at adjusting to things.

I'd like for any decreases in production due to oversupply to only be able to reduce back to the baseline production, and never below it. It there was previously a shortage that increased production, but then massive construction which turned it into a surplus, then I'm fine with production decreasing back to the baseline. But when you build a building with an expected output and you provide it ideal circumstances in terms of location and supply, then you expect it to actually produce up to expectations. The scenario I outlined above is also a perfectly reasonable scenario in which you might want to increase your own supply despite a worldwide surplus and you should be able to expect your facilities to produce what it says they will. And even if the human player wants to flood the world market with excess goods, there's already a mechanic in place which will reduce the price for those goods so it already has its downsides and doesn't really need more.

The mechanic was originally introduced as a measure to prevent worldwide shortages from creating cascading failures in the markets, and I support this. But reducing production was never a part of that and causes new issues of its own, besides just being outright annoying and I'd like to petition that this be adjusted. Thanks for listening!
YoMomma
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Re: Production auto adjustment balance changes

Post by YoMomma »

This supply and demand really going to far, should go back to production and demand. Economy is just random numbers right now and only player can keep his head above water. AI is just crippled for all these years in SRU. Main reason: Rubber! Complaints: Many. Fixes: NONE

So yeah im getting tired writing about this for so many years.

Anyway im signing your pretition.

btw if devs need save games of synthetic rubber production dropping all the way back to demand or even below for US and China in GC within 5 years i got them. Result is 90% of world cant import rubber and economy is dying.
Gameplay 1st
evildari
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Re: Production auto adjustment balance changes

Post by evildari »

For me just disabling it by any means would be enough.
Why should the same factories auto-magically able to produce a multiple amount of goods just by comparing actual to world production.

Here my older comment to this issue - fits better here:

That auto-adjustment of production is especially painful if you want to stockpile goods wich are not right now needed, but for future use.
Especially military goods and to a less severe effect rubber and oil. Coal and Ore is not that severe being common available.

The 1914-Brinkmanship sandbox is the prime example for this. Set mil.goods production to 100% capacity (demand is almost single digit% of capacity)
and you can see decline your production capacity every day. Building more plants to counter this for your region only, also increases this effect.
Until war breaks out. But then the average node production for mil.goods is very low compared to day1.

In another sandbox (GC2020-Gold mod by YoMomma) i (ab)used this to the extreme running a 30 billion people world with
zero agriculture and timber, 2 gas fields, and for the other goods just one building each.
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=29326 (MARSX2)
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Leafgreen
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Re: Production auto adjustment balance changes

Post by Leafgreen »

There is a minister option to stockpile military type goods. Never used it, but does that not work?
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way2co0l
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Re: Production auto adjustment balance changes

Post by way2co0l »

Leafgreen wrote: Jun 29 2018 There is a minister option to stockpile military type goods. Never used it, but does that not work?
Unfortunately not. It's true that they will make efforts to increase those important stockpiles, but what he's describing is still hindered. Basically he's saying that before war, the demand for military goods are low and therefore the world believes that thereis a surplus of supply. As such, they reduce the capacity of all military goods facilities. Let's say you don't really want to sell them, but rather produce as much as you can so that you have as much as you can before the war, so despite the fact that you are already producing more than your current demand, you begin to build even more buildings. The game thinks that there's too much supply and reduces the production ability of every single one of your military goods facilities even more making this entire effort very counter productive. He can still stockpile before the outbreak of war, yes, but really only by importing from everyone else which will have the side effect of shortages for the rest of the world leaving them to struggle to find a way to fight. Building it up himself is still technically possible, but only by building more facilities than he should need, and paying a proportionally higher cost to build and maintain those buildings in the process. This is why the mechanic to reduce production below base values is bad. The player should not be penalized for domestic production in these cases. I continue to argue that the worldwide oversupply already drives the world market price down, which is enough.

I understand the problem here though. The reason this mechanic was also originally introduced was in an attempt to fix rubber, among other things. A few years ago, I was campaigning for something to be done in regards to AI production settings. How I saw them overproducing expensive rubber and trading away their surplus despite the fact that they were doing it at a loss. I really wanted to get the AI to be able to change their production sliders to only produce to demand on resources like this because I felt it would be better for their economies. We got this option instead. And while I agree it has some benefits, I continue to argue that rubber completely ruins it. lol. If the reduction mechanic is removed, then rubber will be overproduced in later scenarios again. It almost always come back to rubber complicating things. :P This is why we can't have nice things! lol

To summarize though. I don't think production should ever be below baseline values. Ideally the AI would be able to adjust its own sliders to account for oversupply, primarily by looking at its production costs compared to world market prices. If world market price is higher than their production cost, then continue building at capacity. This way Malaysia will continue exporting all it's cheap rubber. But if the world market price is lower than production costs, reduce production to demand. This will ensure that the rubber demand worldwide isn't too terribly stretched because the synthetic producers will still continue producing at a loss, but only for domestic supply and they won't double down by selling their excess for a loss. Additionally, this works for other goods as well. Let's say industrial goods world market price has dropped below production costs for some countries. Those countries will stop producing for export ensuring less are on the market and the price can go back up to where it's profitable. Or, if there's still too much available, the price will continue going down forcing more and more to stop producing for export ensuring that sooner or later it will reset and begin to climb again. This would improve the AI economy in several ways. Of course primarily with rubber which is and always has been the red headed step child of the SR resources.
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Leafgreen
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Re: Production auto adjustment balance changes

Post by Leafgreen »

I can show you examples of why production dropping under the needed amount can be useful to the AI 1-2 weekends from now. But that's for the AI. Plus then it just gets stupid in all new ways.
"That's O'neill, with two l's"
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way2co0l
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Re: Production auto adjustment balance changes

Post by way2co0l »

Leafgreen wrote: Jun 29 2018 I can show you examples of why production dropping under the needed amount can be useful to the AI 1-2 weekends from now. But that's for the AI. Plus then it just gets stupid in all new ways.
By all means, more discussion is welcome. It likely improves our chances for seeing changes to it. :)
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