Germany 1936

[Balthagor]

Yes, 14 for air bases, 7 for air fields.

[Anthropoid]

Ah thanks Balth. Couple of comments / observations:

1. Germany 1936 Campaign: if human German player attacks Poland early (summer 1939, I waited till the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact prompt came up) it is possible to: (a) conquer all of Poland; (b) wait till all of Poland is conquered and than agree to the Mol-Rib pact; and (c) (and I'm not sure this is a bug or not) I've played up till Sept 1940 and neither France nor Denmark have declared war on Germany (despite being ongoing allies of the "in exile" Polish govt.); (d) I don't know if it might be because I have my cultural subsidy at like 103%, but I have yet to see a single partisan.

One other thing that might be weighing in to the French failure to war dec Germany: I have quite a sizeable force on the Western border.

2. Italy seems unable to conquer Albania. This is not for lack of units, they just do not seem to be actually landing any troops in Albania.

3. Italy builds so many stupid air units, that they are barging into my southern airbases and airfields and it is just slightly annoying.

4. I'm sure you are already aware of it, but the whole "China Steamrollers Japan" problem, which hit my game in about 1938.

[Anthropoid]

In view means currently on the screen. Eg if you have just Italy on the screen, all of that type currently in Italy would be selected, rather than all of that type deployed anywhere on the map.

Ah, but one subtle distinction I have just come to understand (and which helps to get the most out of these ingenious little filter functions): Neither one seems to select units that already have an order. For example. I've got a bunch of old crap arty that I got from Austria or maybe Bohemia or Moravia. I've got a bunch of them entrenched along the German (formerly Polish) border with USSR, but there are two strays that are hidden in my giant sorting pile around Warsaw. if I select on of them, and click either Add unit type or Add unit type in view, it only selects those two which are in idle status, not any of them that are entrenched.

Still some subtleties to the rubberbanding and "selected" lists that I haven't fully figured out but I'm getting there.

[SentosKarum]

Yes, 14 for air bases, 7 for air fields.

Then I wonder what the UK is doing in Gibraltar in my current game... on the other hand all those planes* seem to be on constant patrol, so it's a "This is how many units can be parked here"-limit and not a "This is how many units can be assigned to this place-limit, is it ?

*Easily high ten, possibly low hundreds of Beauforts and similar swirling around the straits.

[Anthropoid]

Yeah, I do hope that you guys are thinking about the AI's use of air units. It seems to be out of control . . . at least if I connect comments I see made by others with my own observations of Italian air units overrunning all of my Bavarian and some of my Austrian air fields and bases.

[Anthropoid]

Comment on the observations I made above about Western Allies not declaring war after I (as Germany) invaded Poland ca. Sep 1939.

I gave up on that playthrough (well archived the saves, so I do have them if you guys wanted to look at them) because (a) Japan evaporated in 1938 and (b) the Western allies were not war decking Germany even after Poland was fully occupied and Polish govt was in exile.

At the time I wondered if it might be something like a bug. I cannot say it is or isn't now because, in a subsequent playthrough I DID see the Western allies declare war (I believe it was Sandbox mode however) and in that instance I'd say Germany's preparations on the Western front were a bit sparse.

In my most recent playthrough (again Sandbox) I'm only a few days into the invasion of Poland (April 22, 1940 and I believe my invasion started on April 1, 1940 . . . I delayed to get a bit more prepared) so I cannot say as yet what they will do. However, this time, I have pretty solid defenses on the Western Front . . . so I'm guessing the AI is maybe pretty smart about war decking when it is opportune and leaving their allies out to dry when it is not!?

I imagine you guys are amply confident about how all this is working and not concerned that there are malfunctions. With a game like this a single observation is about as useful as generalizing the chemistry of the entire ocean over the last 10 years based on one teaspoon collected in one spot at one time!

But there you have it, my observations for what they are worth. Great game anyway! There seem to be a few issues that I hope you will address in an upcoming patch (my most recent post in the Beta patch thread started by George) but on the whole, a remarkably good and well-balanced micro-management OCD-facilitator-simulator!

[MrRipper]

Well you choose to ignore my commects about following history. Then you cant expect game running historic. You are given freedom in campagin. Guess its not for all. If you declared war on France, the world would prolly explode. So if you want a challenge do that. If i misunderstood your book story about your campagin then i am sorry.

[Anthropoid]

Well you choose to ignore my commects about following history. Then you cant expect game running historic. You are given freedom in campagin. Guess its not for all. If you declared war on France, the world would prolly explode. So if you want a challenge do that. If i misunderstood your book story about your campagin then i am sorry.

You and I know I NEVER ignore any of your commects Ripper! Whatever a commect my be

I don't know whether to be disappointed or impressed that allies are cagey and do not back up allies if I'm a serious threat. Probably impressed.

I mean, stop and think about it. France and UK were sufficiently loathe to go to war that they stabbed Czechoslovakia in the back and signed the Munich Agreement and let Hitler take Sudetenland. That set the precedent for the rest of the war (well it had already started in '36 with the no response on Rhineland reoccupation and obvious signs that Germany was rebuilding, indeed HAD been rebuilding in breach of Versailles Treaty for some time). Given all of that, it is almost amazing that France and GB actually backed up Poland when they did.

So I'd say, in a game modeling that time frame loosely, but historically, an AI that can swing either way depending on other factors (e.g., the existential threat in its face) is a pretty amazingly good AI!

[Anthropoid]

Update on my latest playthrough. This is a 1936 Sandbox start as Germany, settings mostly default: enhanced range and spotting turned off, Mil Diff Hard the rest Normal, volatility Medium, War Unconditional Victory conditions = Capture Command Unit [an aside, I find that this seems to be just about the best way to give the AI a fighting chance. Generally, he seems to hide his Command unit in his capital, which will also be heavily defended making reconning it the most challenging. So at worst it is no 'easier' than Capture Capital, and if the AI does something tricky then capturing the capital might just prove to be Phase I and not led to unconditional surrender. I did see that happen once or twice in SR2020 games with me warring against Sudan, Libya and Israel playing as Egypt. Of course the "hardest" is "complete" but I find that too unrealistic and tedious.]

I was pleased to see that the historical events of Anschluss, Munich Agreement, and also annexation of Czechoslovakia all seem to work even in Sandbox. I then annexed Poland, and again no one else joined in. I'd guess this was because I had quite a sizeable military and in particular a strong border defense on West and North (Poland was allied to France and Denmark at least and several others I believe).

With the Polish Annexation done, I decided to improve on Germany's internal infrastructure and kept my full army of ~1200 units active for about a year. When no additional wars occurred I put about 8/13s of it into reserve and then shortly after that I started selling off obsolete units to would be allies (Paraguay, Iraq, Japan).

From 1939 to 1941, Germany was left unmolested and I focused on building up infrastructure. I then war decked Yugoslavia and using airborne drops, blocked the Italians from grabbing the border hexes (no allies, though Mutual Defense pact with Japan). Hungary also war decked Yugo and started grabbing up bits in the Beograd area. Again I was impressed by the AI! Taking the opportunity to gobble up land afforded by me attacking Yugo I thought was pretty amazing.

That war ended pretty quickly with Hungary grabbing easily half of Yugoslavia (a strip from Beograd south and including all of the eastern side of the country. I managed to get the northwestern chunk of the country, which added 8 or 10 oil deposits.

When that war was done. I again turned to infrastructure building, periodically turning off military production, and with the goal to keep a large petroleum reserve, gradually build up a large reserve of industrial and military goods and get my regions oil production capacity up as high as possible, i.e., to get all available oil fields producing at close to optimum.

Along about 1942 Japan declared war on US Marianas and this called me to Mutual Defense, which I ignored. This happened again when USSR war decked Japan. Interestingly I see no sign of a reduction in relations with Japan. They still love me and pay me great prices for consumer goods.

Eventually some of the South American countries declared war on Germany: Cuba, Brazil and Mexico, but nothing has ever come of those wars.

USSR declared war on Romania (a very good friend to Germany but again, no allies) at the same time it went to war against Japan, round about 1942 or 43. I used that as an opportunity to engage in War Profiteering and sold arms, etc., to both sides. Romania was going wild and had grabbed up large chunks of USSR within a year or so, so I actually started helping USSR _more_ (War with USSR is inevitable and I didn't want Romanian territory blocking my access to the main chunk of USSR I want to control = the oil fields!). Here I engaged in a bit of exploitation of the AI's algorithm on friendly levels. I bought up all of Romanias raw materials and commodities (the ones it would sell), granted at profitable rates for Romania, but this combined with suspending arms sales to Romania and selling MORE arms (and a few old units) to USSR seems to have done the trick.

As of 5 Jan 1944, USSR has taken back most of the territory it lost to Romania. I have all my oil fields fully tapped and I'm doing some 'finishing touches' on supply depots and airbases in the east.

I am _almost_ producing enough petroleum to be self-sufficient (with 500K of my 1,300K army active and none of them moving around!), which means that when I'm fully mobilized and at war, I'll be burning through petrol at a high rate, perhaps only a couple years sustainability. Obviously, this was precisely the situation Germany faced and explains Barbarossa and Stalingrad pretty much in full, though I've taken a different tack, perhaps a more Goering type approach, than that of Hitler. Combined with the lucky stroke that the Western allies of Poland did not attack Germany to defend/avenge Poland, this has allowed me to do what I would think Hitler _should_ have done to make his 1000 Year Reich Come true: hold back on the World War for a few more years and build up infrastructure.

My offensive military is, I suspect sufficient to conquer France the Low Countries Denmark and Norway (16 "Corps" comprising four types of "Divisions:" Armored Division: (2) PzIV + (3) Sd.Kfz 251 + (1) Sd.Kfz 7/1 Flak Vierling + (1) Motorized Pioneire
Arty Division: (1) Motorized Infantry + (5) Morser 18 210mm Arty + (1) AA 38 105mm Flak (else the motorized Flak Vierling in some cases)
Mech Division: (1) Leicther Recce battalion + between 1 and 3 Sd.Kfz 7 mechanized infantry
Support Division: (1) AA 38 105mm Flak (else the motorized Flak Vierling in some cases) + (6) Supply trucks

I also have 34 Fw-200B Condors and probably in the ballpark of 100 airborne capable leg infantry (mixture of Brandenburgers, Falschirmjagers, Paratroopers and Elite Guards). I find that airborne drops are a HUGE force multiplier in past SR titles, and so far I've found it works as well in this game as in the others. They are pretty satisfying represented I'd say, it is just a shame the AI never seems to use them.

Roughly 60 Interceptors (all Bf 110B and some Cs) about 40 Ju87 Stukas, and 20 or so He 111 long range bombers.

Navy is not what I'd hoped by now, but I do have 9 naval fabs churning out Bismarck class cap ships, escourts and Type IXC subs. I've just recently gained techs to advance on by an order of magnitude or two to the next level in subs.

In addition to that, I have a very large "defensive" or "home defense" military comprising infantry, arty (mixture but none too old) and AA. Most of my prime strategic bombing targets have a Flak 40 128mm AA unit (of which I have 86 in total).

I'm inclined at this stage to start remobilizing my army while I continue to buff my petrol production with coal-oil synths, and get everything positioned for possible counter-war decs from the Western powers, then war dec someone . . . someone with lots of oil and I'm not sure who!

On the one hand the USSR is the inevitable target. However, that oil is pretty remote. The closest accessible fields are Hungary and Romania, both of whom like me a lot, but are not allies. In fact I broke all ties with Romania in order to stop arms sales to them and try to help USSR take back her territory. I'm not particularly worried about warring on USSR, but it will take longer and involve still more infrastructure repairs and expansions to bring those Black Sea fields into production. Hungary meanwhile is practically "my" backyard!

Not sure, but it IS nice to have someone to trade with at good prices from time to time, and right now Hungary, Romania, Japan, Paraguay and Iraq all like me. I routinely have bought oil from everyone of the major producers except US and GB (who want ridiculously high prices) but it has been costly as all of them hate my guts.

[Aragos]

Simply put, the game will sometimes follow the history--the big determinant is the Volatility level.

Normal VOL you will get the standard, historical WWII in Europe. Vichy France, UK and France DoW after 3 Sept 39, June 41 DoW on USSR, Dec 41 Dow on USA, etc.

If you do higher, you get much less history. You get the UK and USSR at war in 36 or 37 many times, plus everyone at war with Finland . The USA often sits the war out.

If Japan is conquered before Dec 41 and even if you release it, it will not DoW the USA. No Pearl Harbor. That means you have some automatic DoWs on the USA (Albania, Romania, Finland and Hungary come to mind) but that is it.

Having played many, many USA games, if the USA allies with Japan or Germany, there won't be a Pearl Harbor either.

Personally, I like it--you can make up your own game in Sandbox, which is pretty cool.

[Anthropoid]

Simply put, the game will sometimes follow the history--the big determinant is the Volatility level.

Normal VOL you will get the standard, historical WWII in Europe. Vichy France, UK and France DoW after 3 Sept 39, June 41 DoW on USSR, Dec 41 Dow on USA, etc.

If you do higher, you get much less history. You get the UK and USSR at war in 36 or 37 many times, plus everyone at war with Finland . The USA often sits the war out.

Hmmm, my volatility was set at "Medium" (which I assume is what you mean by "normal" as it seems to be the default setting when you boot up a new Sandbox match). Despite this I'm very much NOT getting an history WWII in Europe. Apart from exerting more insightful (brilliant really! ) control over Germany's pre-war buildup and troop setup, up to Fall 1939 I as player did NOTHING that was ahistorical . . . well waitaminute, yes I did. I didn't agree to ally with Italy when that scripted prompt popped up. But other than that, I played historically: no wars, no interfereing, not even any espionage. I let Anschluss fire (and had units in position to make it happen as soon as it could), and I let Sudetenland fire (and also had units in place. I then let colonization of German Moravia and Bohemia fire and waited till Sept 1 1939 to see what would happen (e.g., if I'd be prompted to go auto to war on Poland or something like that). When the war didn't start on its own, I war decked Poland on Sept 1 or perhaps as late as Sept 4th.

I did do _one_ other ahistorical thing: I annexed Bohemia and Moravia prior to Sept 1 1939. I don't recall exactly when those colonization events fired but if memory serves it was like August 1939 so it wasn't that long that I had that additional territory as part of Germany proper.

So in sum, I played rather darn historically, but nonetheless, France and Great Britain _still_ have not declared war on Germany.

I'm guessing that this is because I have considerable military power and perhaps especially that I have considerable power in the Rhineland/Saarland and adjacent to the Low Countries in Niedersachsen and Westfalen.

If Japan is conquered before Dec 41 and even if you release it, it will not DoW the USA. No Pearl Harbor. That means you have some automatic DoWs on the USA (Albania, Romania, Finland and Hungary come to mind) but that is it.

Having played many, many USA games, if the USA allies with Japan or Germany, there won't be a Pearl Harbor either.

Personally, I like it--you can make up your own game in Sandbox, which is pretty cool.

Yeah I like it too. I'm just curious what it is that is accounting for France and GB having breached their treaty obligations to Poland and never war decked Germany?

Question for you Aragos: have you ever played as non-USA and if you have, have you noticed the AI successfully launch a seaborne invasion as part of either a scripted or non-scripted war?

I have yet to see this happen I think and I'm wondering if (a) the AI is not doing amphibious invasions at all, and if so if (b) the Devs are aware it is a problem?

[Aragos]

I've played the USSR as well.

In Beta, we used to get the 'is this the line to die in?' merchant marine assaults constantly--the Germans would basically send their whole army to die trying to land in London. BG fixed that, but since then, I haven't seen any successful amphibs. Occasionally, the AI will dump an Engineer or Marine unit off on a beach somewhere, and it will somehow manage to secure a port from the land side, but I've yet to see transports/amphibs used in the newest patch.

Try normal VOL and play a non-major power (Costa Rica is good for just watching) and normally, the war will follow the historical route. My bet is that by playing an involved major (e.g., UK, Germany, Italy, France), a lot of the automatic war declarations are removed or don't happen at all.

[number47]

Hmmm, my volatility was set at "Medium" (which I assume is what you mean by "normal" as it seems to be the default setting when you boot up a new Sandbox match).

Didn't devs said that sandbox doesn't have all the events present in the campaign mode? Balth?

[Balthagor]

Sandboxes have most events, but don't have objectives.

[Anthropoid]

So Balth, given what I describe above, any theory on why France and GB did not declare war on me? I'm not complaining, as I figure it is good 'decision making' on the part of the AI and not a 'bug.' But I'm just curious.