AI Reserving Units

General discussion related to the game goes here.

Moderators: Balthagor, Legend, Moderators

Post Reply
Viper
Sergeant
Posts: 13
Joined: Dec 22 2009
Human: Yes

AI Reserving Units

Post by Viper »

I was playing a single player game of Supreme Ruler Ultimate with the fog of war option turned off. I noticed after the date March 31st and occasionally April 1st the game will lag and suddenly most ai countries will order their units to go into reserve where they would keep deploying and reserving them until after awhile leaving them reserved. Ive seen this happen as isreal was halfway through invading syria stop and send all their units to reserve after this date. I have save files i could upload tried reinstalling the game aswell.
Viper
Sergeant
Posts: 13
Joined: Dec 22 2009
Human: Yes

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Viper »

Sorry put this in the wrong games support topic
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Balthagor »

Thread relocated, no worries.

We are aware of this behaviour in general, what in specific do you think the AI should be doing with them?
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
Viper
Sergeant
Posts: 13
Joined: Dec 22 2009
Human: Yes

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Viper »

Hmm well I think they should atleast be keeping enough to secure their area. I saw Isreal who was halfway through conquering Syria send all their units back to be reserved (im assuming to later be sold?) and then never finishing conquering Syria because they dont have the units for it any longer. It also seems that after this happens they are somewhat broken as I saw Germany do the same thing aswell where they reserve their units and sell them or scrap them I am not sure which. Then get attacked by another country which just steamrolles them because they have no units to fight back with.
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Balthagor »

Viper wrote:Hmm well I think they should atleast be keeping enough to secure their area...
Define enough
Define area

This are still vague things. Games are still mathematical systems, everything must be translated over. And the AI can't be asked to "count" hexes, it would have to recount every time the game times a step forward in computations with is 1440 times per game day. That much counting will totally kill performance.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
YoMomma
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 768
Joined: Jun 27 2015
Human: Yes
Contact:

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by YoMomma »

Nothing in war in a war game is not enough ok?

edit: What i would be intested in as developper.. What kinda settings do you use?
Especially economy settings would interest me to see how i can improve it. Anyway i didnt face this issue in my games, but i always play very easy economy since i want a competetive AI and long term game. Not AI incapable of buying energy, thus whole world economy wouldnt funtion.
Gameplay 1st
User avatar
Zuikaku
General
Posts: 2394
Joined: Feb 10 2012
Human: Yes

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:Thread relocated, no worries.

We are aware of this behaviour in general, what in specific do you think the AI should be doing with them?
During the war to send only damaged units into reserve for repairs.
Not to have thousand of units sitting idly in the reserve while none except garrisons on the frontlines.
Just look at the Soviet Union AI in WW2 scenarios (also the same with Russian Empire AI in 1914). It happens everytime.
It does not react, it does not defend (I suppose distances in Russia are so great that AI is not triggered to react).
If you fix this, you have fixed the issue with other regions.
Please teach AI everything!
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Balthagor »

How should the AI define a "frontline", remembering the above issue about counting hexes. ZoC is in some cases a manageable calculation.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
User avatar
Zuikaku
General
Posts: 2394
Joined: Feb 10 2012
Human: Yes

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:How should the AI define a "frontline", remembering the above issue about counting hexes. ZoC is in some cases a manageable calculation.
I suppose AI reacts when enemy aproaches one of the barracks, right? Maybe to increase range of reaction?Or maybe just not to keep undamaged units in reserve during the wars. Moving them towards the enemy? The situation as it is now is very unsettling.
Please teach AI everything!
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Balthagor »

Yes, they react to barracks. Range is a problem, that's counting hexes. Spotting is also taken into account. The AI does know when it "sees" units, but looking for them is intensive. When at peace, units do "sleep" for periods of time to not be spotting when they aren't going to react. But if they sleep to long, a surprise attack would become unfairly devastating.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
User avatar
Zuikaku
General
Posts: 2394
Joined: Feb 10 2012
Human: Yes

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:Yes, they react to barracks. Range is a problem, that's counting hexes. Spotting is also taken into account. The AI does know when it "sees" units, but looking for them is intensive. When at peace, units do "sleep" for periods of time to not be spotting when they aren't going to react. But if they sleep to long, a surprise attack would become unfairly devastating.
They tend to sleep even years after surprise attack. Can they be "reset" from the sleep when the war is declared?
If you start a game and just watch Russia in 1914-1915, you can notice their AI almost not doing nothing. Yes, navy reacts, but after expending border stationed units, hundreds of units are being kept in reserve - doing nothing. The same happens in '41.

I suggest:
- increase the reaction range of barracks
- When one barrack is being emptied due to reaction to enemy, move units from inland barracks into it.
Please teach AI everything!
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Balthagor »

Russia 1914 has some special circumstances related to staging the 1914 campaign and it's events. It should not be used as a test case IMO.

I will flag for George to review some of the "sleep" code. Not sure where that will fall in the development cycles.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
User avatar
Zuikaku
General
Posts: 2394
Joined: Feb 10 2012
Human: Yes

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:Russia 1914 has some special circumstances related to staging the 1914 campaign and it's events. It should not be used as a test case IMO.

I will flag for George to review some of the "sleep" code. Not sure where that will fall in the development cycles.
And what about Russia in '36 or '41 where exactly the same problem is noted?
Please teach AI everything!
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22083
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Balthagor »

I'd have to review the events, but could have similar issues. I'd be more interested in cases involving say Brazil and Argentina. Smaller scale, less variables.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
Viper
Sergeant
Posts: 13
Joined: Dec 22 2009
Human: Yes

Re: AI Reserving Units

Post by Viper »

My issue was I believe the AI was selling too many of it units to other countries for cheap even when they had a decent amount of money in their treasury. I will use Israel for an example they had around 100 billion in treasury and no debts which is a pretty good number but i noticed they were still reserving and selling many of their units around the world. I was their only ally and they actually send me one of the offers which was about 10 land units worth 2.6 billion and they only requested i paid 1 billion in return.
Many lower their willingness to trade units in general or ask for more money when they do?
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion - SRUltimate”