Brandenburgers vs. Fallschirmjägers

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Anthropoid
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Brandenburgers vs. Fallschirmjägers

Post by Anthropoid »

I think the stats for these two units at least as they manifest in the Germany 1936 Campaign or sandbox need to be reassessed.

My understanding is that Brandenburgers were Special Operations troops especially skilled at clandestine operations. For example a small team of operators captured a bridge(s) (either Belgian or Dutch) dressed as enemy soldiers and with the ruse of having captured four Germans.
The Brandenburgers (German: Brandenburger) were members of the Brandenburg German special forces unit during World War II.[1] Originally the unit was formed by and operated as an extension of the military's intelligence organ, the Abwehr. Members of this unit took part in seizing operationally important targets by way of sabotage and infiltration. Being foreign German nationals who were convinced Nazi volunteers, constituent members had lived abroad and were proficient in foreign languages as well as being familiar with the way of life in the area of operations where they were deployed.

The Brandenburg Division was generally subordinated to the army groups in individual commands and operated throughout Eastern Europe, in southern Africa, Afghanistan, the Middle East and in the Caucasus. In the later course of the war, parts of the special unit were used in the fight against partisans in Yugoslavia before the Division, in the last months of the war, was reclassified and merged into one of the Panzergrenadier divisions. They committed various atrocities in the course of their operations.
Fallschirmjägers on the other hand were essentially just paratroops.

Now lets have a look at how these two "units" compare in the game

Image Image

Brandenburgers carry more than twice as much ammo (6 for Falls 16 for Brandens). That doesn't really seem to make sense.

Brandenburgers are less stealthy (30F vs 35B).

They have better recce which does make sense (F23km B35km).

Brandens have farther range (56 F : 60 B), though I'm not sure what effect that has on dismounted ground troops . . . they get fatigued after that far?

They have longer fighting time, more than twice as much (10F : 25B)

They are more effective at fortress busting (1F : 14B).

Brandenburgers are 20% more effective at soft target attack (10F : 12B), 50% better at hard attack (8F : 12B), but identical in close combat (18 both)

They are 3x better at low alt AA interdiction (1 F at 5km : 3B at 5km.

Brandens can attack surface ships and Falls cannot (0 F : 1 B).

They are 100% better at close defense (8F : 16B) and 33% better at hard defense (9F : 12 B).

~15% better at defense against air attack (9F : 10B). 50% better at resisting indirect fire (8 F : 12 B).

Brandenburgers take an extra 5 days to train (which is about 12% slower than the 41 days for Falls). But in all other respects they are
"cheaper" to build.

Now with all that established, let me just say: I do not know this game as well as some of you guys, and I play it sporadically over the years. I also recognize that "realism" is a goal and never an actual "accomplishment" in strategy game design. Good game play must ALWAYS trump "realism" when realism would lead to bad game play.

That said, the way these two units compare just does not seem like good design to me, no matter how the two might be estimated to compare to their real life historical counterparts and for one simple reason:

There is LITERALLY NO REASON TO EVER BUILD A SINGLE Fallschirmjäger.

Well there is "one" reason: 5 days less build time. That hardly seems like an appreciable tradeoff. Brandenburgers are otherwise better in every way (except the worse Stealth, which totally does not make sense).

Having not played the game really enough to know how things tend to play out, I'm hesitant to offer specific suggestions on how the two units should be changed, except to say:

There SHOULD BE GOOD REASONS to build Fallschirmjäger units, lots of them.
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Re: Brandenburgers vs. Fallschirmjägers

Post by Anthropoid »

The most obvious solution, and one I'm not especially "keen" on, is to increase the cost to build and maintain the Brandens (both in terms of cash and material) so that they are appropriately more expensive than Falls.

Another option that could go hand in hand with something like the above would be to make Falls produce faster. Infantry take 9 days, so 3 times that would be 27 days, and if Brandens were left at 46 days, then that alone could make producing Falls worthwhile.
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Re: Brandenburgers vs. Fallschirmjägers

Post by Zuikaku »

Anthropoid wrote:The most obvious solution, and one I'm not especially "keen" on, is to increase the cost to build and maintain the Brandens (both in terms of cash and material) so that they are appropriately more expensive than Falls.

Another option that could go hand in hand with something like the above would be to make Falls produce faster. Infantry take 9 days, so 3 times that would be 27 days, and if Brandens were left at 46 days, then that alone could make producing Falls worthwhile.
Also, switching combat times btw fallschirmjagers and Brandenburgers while also toning down some of their stats woul'd do the trick.
Please teach AI everything!
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Re: Brandenburgers vs. Fallschirmjägers

Post by number47 »

Anthropoid wrote:
Brandenburgers are less stealthy (30F vs 35B).
The red one is wrong interpretation of stats. The bigger the number, the bigger the stealth...so actually Brandenburgers are more stealthy than Paratroopers.
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Re: Brandenburgers vs. Fallschirmjägers

Post by Anthropoid »

number47 wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:
Brandenburgers are less stealthy (30F vs 35B).
The red one is wrong interpretation of stats. The bigger the number, the bigger the stealth...so actually Brandenburgers are more stealthy than Paratroopers.
Ahh! :P

So Brandenburgers are better in every way, except taking 5 days longer to build. Faster, cheaper, stealthier, stronger, just plain better.
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Re: Brandenburgers vs. Fallschirmjägers

Post by number47 »

Anthropoid wrote:
Ahh! :P

So Brandenburgers are better in every way, except taking 5 days longer to build. Faster, cheaper, stealthier, stronger, just plain better.
Exactly! :D
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