SRU Economic Model Changes

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George Geczy
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SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by George Geczy »

We are pushing an update to version 9.1.52 to the "Insider" build today.

This will incorporate the economic changes based on suggestions and discussions over the past few months - starting from 1936 and 1942 will not result in economic baseline changes during the 1940's. It will also make baseline changes after 1949 more gradual (if starting from WWII).

This makes the economic game much easier to play over the 1936 to 1949 period (at least compared to what it was), but on the other hand war will still be a destabilizing factor and for most players that is still the "objective" of playing this time period.

The result of the changes is that there is no significant increasing of node production and consumer demand over the 1936 to 1949 period, so the world economies will generally remain stable (except for war production demand). There should be no noticeable changes to Cold War and modern sandboxes/scenarios.

We'll leave this on the Insider setting for a few days to get some feedback before we push it live to all players.

(If you haven't yet you can set SRU in your library to the "Insider" beta build to receive this update.)

If you try out the build, leave your comments with how you think it plays.

This build also includes additional WMData settings to control the weather system (modability of Weather). Of note to modders, the progression of WMData files has changed - SRCW is now set #3 (instead of 2) and GC2020 is now set #4 (instead of 3). This only becomes important if you've modded WMData files and include some of the game default files too.

-- George / BattleGoat.
evildari
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by evildari »

Thank you for this, especially for that weather modding surprise!
(no good deed goes unpunished, here a few questions)

1. is it possible for a mod to just use one wmdata file (like in my marsmod) - is removing "dayswmlevel," enough?
2. please give instruction to control the weather system in wmdata (a few good comments there would be enough i guess)
3. since node production is automatically changed based worldwide production (-capacity) ,
can we (at least me) have a lobby option , scenario, ini or wmdata setting to disable this?
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=29326 (MARSX2)
Buzzbrad
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by Buzzbrad »

This is live on the insider build now.
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George Geczy
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by George Geczy »

evildari wrote: Jun 27 2018 1. is it possible for a mod to just use one wmdata file (like in my marsmod) - is removing "dayswmlevel," enough?
Yes, if you take a look at the *.WMDATA files in the Maps\Data folder, you'll notice that the first file will #include the next file - so the .scenario will reference the starting point (ie, "SR1936.WMDATA"), and then that first file will #include the next one, and so on. The progression between the numbers involves two things:
1) The "next" &&WMDATA exists (ie, was #included, and uses a parameter of the next number)
2) the dayswmlevel value is set to the days between the levels.
2. please give instruction to control the weather system in wmdata (a few good comments there would be enough i guess)
https://supremeruler.gamepedia.com/WMData
3. since node production is automatically changed based worldwide production (-capacity) ,
can we (at least me) have a lobby option , scenario, ini or wmdata setting to disable this?
Hmmm. That had not been mentioned before, the slow capacity adjustment that's in the code was not something I had seen as a problem. Although the auto adjustment and the WMData level averaging don't really work well together (ie, the auto adjustment is generally ignored while the averaging is going on).

-- George.
evildari
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by evildari »

George Geczy wrote: Jun 27 2018 Hmmm. That had not been mentioned before, the slow capacity adjustment that's in the code was not something I had seen as a problem. Although the auto adjustment and the WMData level averaging don't really work well together (ie, the auto adjustment is generally ignored while the averaging is going on).
That auto-adjustment of production is especially painful if you want to stockpile goods wich are not right now needed, but for future use.
Especially military goods and to a less severe effect rubber and oil. Coal and Ore is not that severe being common available.

The 1914-Brinkmanship sandbox is the prime example for this. Set mil.goods production to 100% capacity (demand is almost single digit% of capacity)
and you can see decline your production capacity every day. Building more plants to counter this for your region only, also increases this effect.
Until war breaks out. But then the average node production for mil.goods is very low compared to day1.

In another sandbox (GC2020-Gold mod by YoMomma) i (ab)used this to the extreme running a 30 billion people world with
zero agriculture and timber, 2 gas fields, and for the other goods just one building each.
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=29326 (MARSX2)
Kantismus
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by Kantismus »

Ok, Played a test game for the new build with Argentina all the way to July 1939

Here are my observations.
- Oil shortage is back in the 1936 scenario. before the change oil field production slowly increase from 3.000.000 to 30.000.000 barrels. now it freezes at 3.001.800. There is a lot of industrial goods and military goods production being build by AI regions. This leads into an oil shortage in 1939. There were some oil fields build on rare occasions but certainly not enough
- rubber and consumer goods are fine for now. electric power market price stagnated at 9$ while domestic production costs raised to 15$ slowly (Argentina starts with a relatively high GDP/c in 1936 what is historically accurate)
- No Oil means no industrial and military goods. Axis nations are in serious economic trouble already.

Conclusions:
Years ago you have chosen to build in the oil production increase for your SR1936 release because playing axis nations resulted in spamming oil fields all over the place to keep up with civil demand. Once i have noticed you locked not only production increase für consumer goods but also for oil fields that was exactly what i have expected and your game did not disappoint me :-)

Another thing i an not happy with on how you fixed the consumer goods problem. Freezing productions capacities all the way up to 1949 may fix the problem for the timeline before. But what will happen after 1949? Most players will be totally fine i guess, but i somehow love to play long term sandboxes not rushing for world conquest.

So come on george. There has to be a smarter solution somewhere. What is about limiting production increase to a few percent per year max increase? Before 9.1.52 consumer goods production simply doubled within a year that was waaaaaay to fast. For example 35.000 (1936) +10% = 38.500 (1937) + 10% = 42,350 (1938) + 10% = 46,585 and so on.... That looks a lot smoother then 35.000 (1936) -> 60.000 (1937) -> 120.000 (1938) -> 320.000 ( 1939) -> 420.000 (1940) as it was before 9.1.52
CivNation
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by CivNation »

Economy seems to have played fine for me before and after these changes. I say stick with ultimate realism whenever possible. Technological advancements should slightly increase node production, and consumer demand will rise with GDP/c and population, based on some equation that calculates disposable income after taxes. World market shortages are to be expected at times, countries are not always willing to trade, and world economies are not always stable.
rlame
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by rlame »

Economy still has big problems. Playing few years 1936 -> and world runs out of industrial goods and petrol which leads to global world economy to collapse.
Also some countries go bankcrupt (france went super fast to minus 10 billion once game started, ussr huge dept now)

I really like this game it would be nice if we'd get economy on ww2 sorted.

Link to save game.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kh2lmP ... sp=sharing
SGTscuba
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by SGTscuba »

Out of interest is the system still in that automatically drops production based on world demand vs supply? Could it go back to the old system where what a node says it could produce, is what it should without some global production drop.
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040
evildari
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by evildari »

SGTscuba wrote: Sep 06 2018 Out of interest is the system still in that automatically drops production based on world demand vs supply? Could it go back to the old system where what a node says it could produce, is what it should without some global production drop.
the automatic production adjustment based on global supply&demand is still there.
I wish there would be a way (lobby option, ini-setting, command-line) to disable it, and have the old fixed base production per node.
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=29326 (MARSX2)
SGTscuba
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by SGTscuba »

evildari wrote: Sep 08 2018
SGTscuba wrote: Sep 06 2018 Out of interest is the system still in that automatically drops production based on world demand vs supply? Could it go back to the old system where what a node says it could produce, is what it should without some global production drop.
the automatic production adjustment based on global supply&demand is still there.
I wish there would be a way (lobby option, ini-setting, command-line) to disable it, and have the old fixed base production per node.
That's a shame. I hope we get an option or a complete reversion at some point. Maybe permanent trades with colonies too so they don't go bankrupt.
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040
rlame
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by rlame »

Something strange still in economic model. Started playing 1914 sandbox, this time world didn't run out of anything so badly that it would cripple economy completely. However all countries have very bad income and domestic approval. Seems to be impossible to rise GDP. It's year 1999 or so in save so I played quite long.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PQFr5z ... sp=sharing
rlame
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by rlame »

Does the demand of goods react to GDP or technology level?
I'd like that demand would increase as new things are being researched and also researching techs should increase production.
The way economy works now after latest changes kills the fun playing the game.
I don't mind if economy is hard but 2 oil wells should always produce 2x more oil than 1 oil well.
YoMomma
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by YoMomma »

GDP, cause if i set China to 15k gdp like rl, they hardly produce excess of CG, but lots of times i feel techs make the world weaker :cry: Economy is not harder it's obsolete, you just need to be biggest producer with the greatest demand so the rest produce less over time or you will.
Gameplay 1st
SGTscuba
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Re: SRU Economic Model Changes

Post by SGTscuba »

I still think there is something wrong with the economy. I can't exactly work out how it works anymore. I've been building more and more oil production, but production barely goes up and then goes back down, even though I have built 4x the number I had, and have built supply depots near them to boost supply. Surely the system should be somewhat linear relative to the number of facilities, with the production being throttled back by the AI (switching from using max capacity to 100% demand) and not by throttling potential (total available production).

It makes it pretty hard to play when you get a large empire that you own directly.

It also then makes it hard to drive up GDP so I can buy more stuff and do more research.

Playing the 36 scenario.

Am I missing something here?
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040
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