3D modelling

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MK4
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Re: 3D modelling

#841 Post by MK4 » May 06 2018

It`s great that we`re finally getting the Su-57 and I love how the US version of the F-22 turned out. Are you planing different camo versions for the generic texture? Personally I`d like the US/Russian version of both (sans markings) if possible.

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Re: 3D modelling

#842 Post by Nerei » May 07 2018

They will both use a different camouflage pattern compared to their Russian and US versions but I can include versions of these without such markings.
I assume you also want to get rid of the stars and stripes and "Spirit of America" text on the F-22A.

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Re: 3D modelling

#843 Post by MK4 » May 08 2018

I assume you also want to get rid of the stars and stripes and "Spirit of America" text on the F-22A.
Thank you! Yes.

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Re: 3D modelling

#844 Post by number47 » May 08 2018

MK4, are you using these models for SR2020 mod or something else?
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"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
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Re: 3D modelling

#845 Post by MK4 » May 09 2018

number47 wrote:
May 08 2018
MK4, are you using these models for SR2020 mod or something else?
I am using them for my SR2020 modification. Since the feature of region specific textures was implemented starting with 1936 (afaik) I don`t have the luxury of using more than one texture in my game so I aim for the one that is most appealing (to me). And speaking of luxuries, I can still fit two dozen more units in the SR2020 UGBITS. After that I`ll have the option to upgrade my mod to SRCW (which seems like alot of work for a very limited platform) or just come here to admire Nerei`s graphics (which is probably the main reason I still come here anyway :-) ). Why do you ask?

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Re: 3D modelling

#846 Post by number47 » May 10 2018

No specific reason, I was just curious...but thank you for the answer. I wasn't aware region specific textures were implemented in SR36 for the first time. That's a good information, as I often played with a thought of porting some of the goodies (models, units, etc) from later iterations of SR to SR2020 which always felt like a truly finished (rounded up) product. The later iterations always left a feeling of "close, but not quite there"...
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Re: 3D modelling

#847 Post by MK4 » May 10 2018

Out of curiosity (if there was any prospect of ever buying SRU off steam I would have used the word "panic") what do you consider problematic with SRU by comparison to the previous versions?

About moving to SR2020 from SRU though I think you may be confusing nostalgia for actual quality. To be clear, I only have SR2010, SR2020 and SRCW (all further versions were sold exclusively on steam). I have actually bought several copies of each to support the nice BG folks (though that feeling is gone now), but I have only played SR2020. It is a deeply flawed platform. And I`m not talking about the lack of meaningful diplomacy, a map editor or other features that would have made the game better/more interesting. I`m talking about design decisions/implementations that for me kill the mood:
- as mentioned, the feature of region specific textures was only implemented later.
- only the first two UGBITS files will be loaded by the game and since many of the spaces are already taken in vanilla this means you`ll have to choose which of Nerei`s units to implement (unless having wrong UIs do not bother you).
- SR2020 has a very outdated political map and doing something about it is bound to be problematic since the scripting options are limited (as compared to SRU from what I understand) and the map editor isn`t there in this version of the game.
- poorly defined international relations. I remember from a campaign that Hungary (both government and people) just loved Romania. But while Hungary could not get enough of this, all the strategic partners that Romania has in reality (USA, France, UK etc.) simply could not stand it in game. Serbia too hated it. In reality both countries have a long friendly relationship and Romania is among a handful of EU countries not recognizing Kosovo. Speaking of which, as soon as Serbia invaded Kosovo, everyone would invade Serbia. One of the most sizeable contingents that would crush Serbia was actually the one coming from Ukraine, of all countries. This is all solvable through modding, but as default it contributes to the player`s "what the heck happened in the world between now and 2020?" sentiment.
- borders; if your allies are fighting besides you there will be countless small (many one tile/hex in size) patches that belong to one country inside the larger borders of another country. It looks bad and it is implausible. I understand this was fixed from SRCW onwards.
- wars that never end; which also means that those awkward tiles stay like that forever and that you can only destroy and conquer your enemy. Otherwise the border will continuously shift. Annexing some region you have historical claims on is out of the question unless you make a continuous border of tanks and such. I`ve read that this has been mitigated in the latest versions of the game.
- certain features that I`ve read about, like colonies, the liberate/annex option, buying units and such do not exist in SR2020.
- navies that are useless. In all my games the US was incapable of successfully assaulting Cuba (as in establishing some beachheads). I understand there was a feature of merchant navies or something similar introduced with SRCW that was meant to address this.
- AI is terrible at supplying land forces. Half of Asia (from Kazakhstan to Mongolia) would always be dotted with twitching tanks that were out of gas.
- AI is completely incapable of supplying naval units. I have played several campaigns at the Black Sea and it always looked like something from "28 Days Later" with ships out of fuel all over the sea. I understand an "ingenious" fix was crafted for this problem in SRCW (the AI would just scrap stuck ships).
Overall, I don`t think it is fair to say that the SR2020 AI is the worst I have ever seen. I am guessing that games from the early 1990s had much more primitive AIs. I think that the correct way to describe the SR2020 AI is that it is the least capable of undertaking the tasks given to it from all the games that I have ever played. From what I have read some work has been put into the AI of later SR versions so I`d like to believe it is at least a little better now.

Anyway, I have not released my mod because I did not think there would be any interest in a SR2020 mod anymore (and it changes much more than unit graphics), but if you need something from it (like the UGBITS for Nerei`s units done in the old/SR2020 style of graphics, unit entries etc.) I can post them for you.

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Re: 3D modelling

#848 Post by Nerei » May 10 2018

You are free to prepackage the content I have made for ease of use. My only objection would be if it was through Steam workshop as that would just be asking for problems but that is really not an issue.


Yes I doubt there will be any prospect of buying SRU off Steam anytime soon. You cannot even get SR36 on GOG despite it not having been updated in years which I think was one of the arguments once for not putting SRU on GOG and unlike SRU is not bound to Steam matchmaking

I really do not get why BG is sticking solely to Steam. I mean unless you got good exposure from other sources you are very much going to, to put it bluntly, drown in trash.
Steam is good for companies like Ubisoft with their large hypetrains whenever they release another open world game as they will float to the top of the cesspool but everyone else is stuck in the muck.
Yes there is the discovery algorithm but seriously it just plain sucks and I remember giving up on it a long time before the floodgates where truly opened and I really do not want to spend an hour or more each day looking thoroughly through the new releases just to try and find something good.
I gave up on Steam a long time ago due to this and a few other unrelated reasons.


I remember reading that Blossom Tales (basically a wannabe Link to the past and a fairly good one too) sold over 20 times as much on the Nintendo Switch as on Steam and that despite being out on steam 3-4 times longer on Steam and Steam at times having more concurrent users than Nintendo has shipped units for the Switch.
Basically Blossom Tales drowned in the trash flooding Steam and BG's supreme ruler series very likely is doing the exact same.



I would say several of the issues you mention are still there. I have not played much during the last few patches though so my memory might not be the best or changes might have happened.

Watching a war between India and the PRC is basically the story of watching military equipment running out of fuel in the Himalayas. Russia and the PRC in particular has a bad habit of getting units stuck.
The AI's lack of supply management is a real problem I would say.

The Naval AI is not amazing either. You can see in the bug reporting forum that there are issues with warships cruising to the north pole. To be fair though naval AI for this type of games seems to be fairly impossible to get decent.

Navies are also fairly inefficient. A fairly easy if not standard tactic for the Nationalist Chinese in the 1936 start is to mass units at the coast and just sail across ignoring any Japanese ships and invading the Japanese home islands.
The issue with the implementation of the merchant marine is that on one hand yes it means the AI can make landings on foreign soil but at the same time it means AI navies are basically worthless being completely incapable of repelling a massed invasion of cheap motorised infantry or engineers.

I have not checked most relations enough in depth to say if they are accurate or not but if military hardware is anything to go by there is probably some issues.

I would also say never ending wars are still an issue. Wars tend to drag on until one side is utterly destroyed. I seriously cannot remember seing any cases where say the Korean war ends (yes it is only a cease-fire but I would still consider it an end) like it really did and at best a handful of cases where wars does not end in total conquest.

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Re: 3D modelling

#849 Post by MK4 » May 11 2018

Getting back to units... hey, look, it`s the Pantsir:
http://www.janes.com/article/80011/isra ... s-in-syria

Nerei
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Re: 3D modelling

#850 Post by Nerei » May 12 2018

Yes I have seen it. I also got an incomplete model of one but it is nowhere near close to presentable.

I do have a presentable model of HMS Dragon though
Image
It mostly just need to some deck details.

Nerei
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Re: 3D modelling

#851 Post by Nerei » May 16 2018

This should more or less be the planned Su-57 and F-22 versions
Image
I am also using the F-22 to represent the KAI KF-X as some of the concepts resemble it and chances are it will be as close to the final aircraft as any attempt to actually make it.

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