Rubber supply global

Suggestions for ongoing development and discussion of feature implementations.

Moderators: Balthagor, Moderators

Message
Author
evildari
Colonel
Posts: 293
Joined: Aug 10 2017
Human: Yes

Re: Rubber supply global

#16 Post by evildari » Feb 23 2018

Anthropoid wrote:Seriously, the computer builds NEW complexes? I always thought it never did that, so it was limited in its industrial expansion to only build facilities in the empty slots in existing complexes.

My memory could be in error, or it could be that it has been fixed in more recent years.
Yes the computer player can build even total new complexes on an empty field. But then i wonder why did it not use a free slot first...
But in my observation not all, somehow mines are neglected.
Unfortunately its also not very expansionists about how much its build - you wont see heavy basebuilding like in generals or total annihilation. So another form of warfare is not possible for the computer player.
Also only the computer player is able to build facilities which are set with the nobuild 1 flag in the unit file !
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 87&t=26151 (MARSX1)

User avatar
Anthropoid
Colonel
Posts: 409
Joined: Dec 10 2012
Human: Yes

Re: Rubber supply global

#17 Post by Anthropoid » Feb 23 2018

Neat! Glad to hear that that old deficiency was either a myth or has been fixed.

As far as why it would build a new one rather than use an en existing empty slot . . . presumably George has some fairly complex conditionals that the computer checks periodically. If it deems building a new complex to be > benefit than not, then it does it!

YoMomma
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 639
Joined: Jun 27 2015
Human: Yes
Contact:

Re: Rubber supply global

#18 Post by YoMomma » Feb 24 2018

evildari wrote:...But then i wonder why did it not use a free slot first...
Yes, micromanaging actually increased now AI build stuff compared to SR2020. Basicly all regions will build agriculture till they are self sufficient if possible. The locations they choose tho.. they dont care if its 30% supply or 100%. Maybe they are triggered to population? That does not make much sense game wise as it's not a value as far as i know..
evildari wrote: But in my observation not all, somehow mines are neglected.
Yes, they will build composite ore, but no mines.
evildari wrote: Unfortunately its also not very expansionists about how much its build - you wont see heavy basebuilding like in generals or total annihilation. So another form of warfare is not possible for the computer player.
Yes they will just build what the region need, with no attention to world production/demand.
evildari wrote: Also only the computer player is able to build facilities which are set with the nobuild 1 flag in the unit file !
Ok guess ill have to look at that as well for my mod.

Do devs got anyhing to add about this issue?
Gameplay 1st

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20786
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Rubber supply global

#19 Post by Balthagor » Feb 24 2018

I don't recall all the rules that were set for the building of facilities, and since I'm not our coder, I can't look up how it was implemented.
...set with the nobuild 1 flag in the unit file
If the facility is nobuild=1 then it can't be built by anything other than scripted events. It has no relation to the AI.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

evildari
Colonel
Posts: 293
Joined: Aug 10 2017
Human: Yes

Re: Rubber supply global

#20 Post by evildari » Feb 24 2018

Balthagor wrote:I don't recall all the rules that were set for the building of facilities, and since I'm not our coder, I can't look up how it was implemented.
...set with the nobuild 1 flag in the unit file
If the facility is nobuild=1 then it can't be built by anything other than scripted events. It has no relation to the AI.
i would read that rather as: it has only relation to the human player.
I could observe this "feature" while hunting a price-explosion issue which lead to an infinite treasury (overflow) in my first release of my DT-mod: http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 32#p182727
That treasury bug - i saw in many testgames - starts in one of these countries first (and only for the ai-player):
morroco, senegal, moldova,syria, nicaragua
in my mod this rogue-ai building was visible due to a very visible treasury increase. And since those countries can be observed easy, especially Moldova, you can see that the ai will build a "nobuild=1"-building.
Also there seem to be no entry for an event that made the ai construct a facility in the units 21K range, maybe you can point me to the entry in the events2020.csv which make the ai of these countries build those prohibited facilities.
Its not that bad - if you know it happens - i can and have just delete really unused entries in my mods.
Just wanted to state what the computer player can do, like bending rules :lol:
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 87&t=26151 (MARSX1)

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20786
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Rubber supply global

#21 Post by Balthagor » Feb 24 2018

evildari wrote:...you can see that the ai will build a "nobuild=1"-building...
If this was reported, then we totally missed it. What facility type did they build?

Was the equipment file modded?
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

evildari
Colonel
Posts: 293
Joined: Aug 10 2017
Human: Yes

Re: Rubber supply global

#22 Post by evildari » Feb 24 2018

yes the equipment file was quit heavy modded - its the first release of my DT-mod - where you can see the effects of this behaviour very easy after 6-18 months.
That's why i did not post it in the issues section.
They build a petrol-synth building that used only energy as input.
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 87&t=26151 (MARSX1)

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20786
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Rubber supply global

#23 Post by Balthagor » Feb 25 2018

petrol-synth is not supposed to be "nobuild=1". I'm confident that in Vanilla, the AI does not build facilities that are set to nobuild.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

evildari
Colonel
Posts: 293
Joined: Aug 10 2017
Human: Yes

Re: Rubber supply global

#24 Post by evildari » Feb 25 2018

in my dt-mod (equipment file and more modded) i set some synth-buildings (21019, 21022, 21029, 21066, 21079, 21310) to nobuild=1
and the ai still build at least either 21019 or 21310 , these 2 only use energy ( uRawSourceX = 128) as input.

i could live with that by deleting legacy entries - but i thought it would be good for others to know just in case they left some legacy entries, that the computer player can still build them.
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 87&t=26151 (MARSX1)

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20786
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Rubber supply global

#25 Post by Balthagor » Feb 25 2018

I suppose that's possible, that the nobuild setting only limits player access, that AIs don't look at the value when deciding what to build. So this isn't a bug, but it is a limitation on modding.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

YoMomma
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 639
Joined: Jun 27 2015
Human: Yes
Contact:

Re: Rubber supply global

#26 Post by YoMomma » Feb 26 2018

Balthagor wrote:I don't recall all the rules that were set for the building of facilities, and since I'm not our coder, I can't look up how it was implemented.
I ment do you get anything to add about this discussion/issue of you guys crippling AI after 3 years? I think theres some great feedback here. Maybe move topic to issues SRU and note it or something.
Gameplay 1st

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20786
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Rubber supply global

#27 Post by Balthagor » Feb 26 2018

We haven't crippled the AI.

I try and follow most of the discussions and look for useful information. I do take notes from what I read.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

evildari
Colonel
Posts: 293
Joined: Aug 10 2017
Human: Yes

Re: Rubber supply global

#28 Post by evildari » Feb 27 2018

right they didn't cripple the ai itself, only the economy with wrong treasury calculation and the weird rubber bottleneck... (SCNR)
maybe add a check if nobuild=1 is applied to everyone or rename it to "nobuildforhumanplayer"
my mods
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=25932 (even techs and units for everyone - AI will own you too)
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 87&t=26151 (MARSX1)

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20786
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Rubber supply global

#29 Post by Balthagor » Feb 27 2018

evildari wrote:right they didn't cripple the ai itself, only the economy with wrong treasury calculation and the weird rubber bottleneck... (SCNR)
We've seen plenty of AARs that show that the economy shortcuts have little impact when economies are normal sizes.
evildari wrote:maybe add a check if nobuild=1 is applied to everyone or rename it to "nobuildforhumanplayer"
This would be a massive change of the function. Right now the limit it applies is it removes it from the build list. That's how it keeps a player from building it.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

czert
Captain
Posts: 146
Joined: Oct 06 2009
Human: Yes

Re: Rubber supply global

#30 Post by czert » Mar 03 2018

rubber is just pieceof puzzle, yes we need more places to grow natural rubber, especialy in brazilia, and yeah thats main problem for ai - it dont build new resource building, at all, even if have a lot of places to take resource from.
it dont build when market avavaiblity is very low or literary none, it dont even build new sources to be self suficient, and that is extremly bad.
not only for rubber, same is for industrial/consumer goods, but espcialy electricity.
in my 1950 game i was forced to build over 6000, yes over 6 000 coal power plants just for electricity export, that other states are not efective dad due to lack of this resource.
and yeah add cca 2000 new coal power plants for own state (russia) ti be able to have enough electricity fir own population.
Can you beat me ?http://czert1938.mybrute.com

Want help to develop/play mod for one of best games ever ? Try this. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ub ... =cfrm&c=11

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion - SRGW”