Naval AI behaviour

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SGTscuba
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Naval AI behaviour

#1 Post by SGTscuba » Feb 26 2018

Hi all,

I've been having a think about possible modifications to the naval AI logic as I think the AI could do with some improvement in this area.

- If a ship is sunk, but the cause is unknown, the AI should assume a submarine attack has happened. If they have forces within the local battlezone, and they have ASW capability, they should come and comb the area. If no battlezone forces are available, then those in theatre should be used. These forces should ideally group up before moving into the area so that they act as a task force. After a few days of sortie in the area, the group should disperse and go back to either patrol, or being a fleet in being.

- If an enemy convoy is spotted by a scouting ship, a group of mixed stats ships should be grouped together (from local battlezone first, then theatre level), and sortie towards the last spotted position, before then combing the area. After a few days of sortie in the area, the group should disperse and go back to either patrol, or being a fleet in being.

- If a friendly convoy is spawned, a time check is started then at the end of a day, a count should be established for the approximate size of the convoy. This can then be used to decide the level of protection that will be sent to protect the convoy. This should first be selected from local forces, before going to theatre level forces. The force should then escort the convoy until its destination, or until low on fuel and then disperse back to patrol of being a fleet in being.

I'm unsure how exactly to get the AI to create battleship groups or carrier groups so i'm open to suggestions on that. Here are some spitballed ideas from me:

- On deployment of a carrier, a trigger would select a balance of ships in the local area which would then be told to escort the carrier. A number of suitable planes would also be selected from the local area to assign to the carrier. I have no idea of what to do to get them to attack targets and be actually useful unless they are tied into a previous suggestion and fly from the group up point to attack. Or are somehow triggered to attack when a enemy is spotted within range by the convoy escort.
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040

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Balthagor
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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#2 Post by Balthagor » Feb 26 2018

Noted
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Terran1969
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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#3 Post by Terran1969 » Jun 21 2018

I like this idea i have been wanting to assign ships to battle zones so that they don't just idal there way around they would have the job of policing that zone or at least the sea part of the zone something similar can be done with land and air forces this for me would give the player more control over there forces and what they do the current syastem do not really do that but maybe if its possible then it would be cool.

SGTscuba
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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#4 Post by SGTscuba » Jun 21 2018

I posted some suggestions some time ago in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=188109&sid=5dba779cf8c5 ... fc#p188109

I don't know anything about AI but hopefully they can get some improvements in.
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040

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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#5 Post by mikeownage » Jun 21 2018

Yeah, naval ai is currently useless.

YoMomma
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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#6 Post by YoMomma » Jun 21 2018

For naval AI to take place you need ships first right? None being build in peace time besides some superpowers. Also due to lack of designs. 9/10 regions with naval production doesnt even have escort, capital or sub design in modern era, and wont research them as long they got other priorities. In fact that is what they should do cause wars are not won on sea in this game. Only for the player sitting with their navy in the spot where they know AI will send their merchant marines. For example Japan is super easy to invade, first pick an unprotected island, Japan will send all their infantry and tanks as MM, sure some ships will wake up to and send over there, but they are easy pickings for a descent air force.

A fix would be to give more designs available to the smaller regions and analyse how allies defend eachother, prolly it wouldn't hurt to make naval borders much bigger, like what i saw on SR2010, so the AI is not as confused on where it can shoot the enemy.
What im seeing from naval ai on modern games it's descent and not far from OP suggestions, its more a mather of how easy it is to sink a ship where the enemy has to make a new one spending about 200 days. If player is using air force effectively in combination with anthi ship missiles, there will basicly never be a battle. AI will always respond to your actions, so is always 1 step behind. Thats what i like in HOI battle system where all parties have the time to get involved in the desisive battle, and even can get out with a couple of damaged ships.
Last edited by YoMomma on Jun 21 2018, edited 1 time in total.
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way2co0l
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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#7 Post by way2co0l » Jun 21 2018

I've made some suggestions on naval AI in the past, but I recognize how difficult it can be to program. It's not like land where borders, rivers, terrain, cities, and roads can all be used to help units get their bearing. Every sea tile is more or less the same as the next really. I personally think that the Navies have been improved a great deal, but they're still far from being as effective as I'd like.

My biggest problem with them is that they basically just space out as single ships and make themselves easy to pick off. During one of my earlier Russian playthroughs during the 1914 campaign, my vastly inferior fleet was able to virtually devastate the far superior German one simply by concentrating my forces properly. I'd create stacks with a couple cruisers and several destroyer escorts with each of my battleships. When a German ship came within reach, every single ship in my stack would hit them and they'd be lucky to get a shot back at me before going down. It really just wasn't even fair. I knocked out dozens of advanced German battleships and cruisers, suffering only a handful of losses myself, though attrition did reduce my active fleet considerably as all my wounded vessels were in port repairing. But the point is that the AI suffers in this regard and simply won't be able to put up a fight against even a vastly inferior player simply because they spread out and don't group up.

Basically, my suggestion boils down to utilizing a lot of the features that are already in there but changing the behavior for escorts to follow capital ships. Patrol boats can continue spreading out to make contact with enemy ships, and when contact is made, the capital ships can move to respond with their escorts in tow. It's not a perfect solution, but I just feel like it improves on things and makes the enemies fleets more capable of fighting back. Escorts should basically attach themselves to capital ships. 2-3 for each one. When a capital ship leaves port, 2-3 of those ships are assigned to it and follow it wherever it goes. When a patrol boat is engaged and it calls on the capital ship to respond, the escorts follow. Players will still be able to beat them by simply organizing their fleets better, but it's still better because it means it's not as easy as sinking a single ship 1 at a time. 1 of their stacks bumps into one of yours, you may have more ships and superior firepower but your shots are spread amongst their ships and it pretty much guarantees that you'll be taking hits back.

Like I said, not a perfect solution but I personally believe it's the best option available that would suffice for improved naval interactions.

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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#8 Post by YoMomma » Jun 22 2018

I believe another issue right now, besides AI not building ships in peace, is range. To save on calculations for the game i believe BG reduced the operating range of ships greatly, so you only get help from neighbour navies.
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SGTscuba
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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#9 Post by SGTscuba » Jun 22 2018

Quick question to the Goats, does the AI use FSM's or some other method for determining its actions?
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040

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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#10 Post by Buzzbrad » Jun 22 2018

SGTscuba wrote:
Jun 22 2018
Quick question to the Goats, does the AI use FSM's or some other method for determining its actions?
George will hopefully get around to answering this in more detail. The AI uses quite a few ways for determining its actions which to a limited extent includes FSM.

SGTscuba
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Re: Naval AI behaviour

#11 Post by SGTscuba » Jun 22 2018

Buzzbrad wrote:
Jun 22 2018
SGTscuba wrote:
Jun 22 2018
Quick question to the Goats, does the AI use FSM's or some other method for determining its actions?
George will hopefully get around to answering this in more detail. The AI uses quite a few ways for determining its actions which to a limited extent includes FSM.
I'm thinking if your using FSM's, it may be easier for us to create diagrams of expected behaviour to help with programming. (normally I draw these up for myself, or get others to fill in some stuff for it at work)
My SR:U Model Project, get the latest and post suggestions here:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 79&t=28040

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